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Nipple

The Zombie And Survivor Balance

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Before reading, please take note this is my first post on this forum, and I made an account simply to express my opinion on the pvp aspect of dying light. I think Btz is an awesome gamemode regardless. (it does evolve better than evolve) But I feel some changes are in order

I have been playing a fair share of battles - both as a survivor and a night hunter, and it's become apparent to me how unbalanced the game is in the survivors favour. This is coming from a relatively unbiased point of view, as I enjoy playing as the hunter and the survivor. 

 

I could write 10 pages worth of text as with different scenarios I've encountered which has left me puzzeled. But I will keep it short and to the point with what is (IMO) the problems with the game mode. 

 

Melee combat 

 

In dying light, the Hunter is penalized and punished for mistakes made in the melee department. While the Survivor meets punishment to a much less of an extent

 

comparison 1

 

Night hunter: If a night hunter misses a ground pound, you are pretty much guaranteed a death against a relatively skilled player, the 3 hit quota is very much used up by the time the animation is finished.  

 

Human: if the human tries and fails a drop kick attack (which in most cases hits because of the magnetism in the game, on par with death from above) there is very little chance the survivor will die from that mistake, as the hunters melee attacks are weaker and slower.

 

Comparison 2

 

Night hunter: Against experienced players, a night hunters attempted tackle is usually met with eating dirt and general dismay, and attempting to kill a human with chaining tackles is not really an option.

 

Human: should the survivor attempt a drop kick on a night hunter, it will undoubtedly hit, even if the night hunter jumps beforehand to avoid the attack the strong gravitational pull of the attacks will most likely pull the night hunter back into the games desired position. and if one drop kick wasn't enough, it's not really a problem. Because for the humans the drop kick is in every right unavoidable and very much repeatable until the night hunter is no more. 

 

Now a few people and the devs would argue "oh, nipple. The night hunter is made for stealth and not close quarters, you are not supposed to go toe-to-toe with humans" 

 

With your spits used up (which boasts an impressive 90 second(!) recharge time 1v1) and missed due to survivors excessive dodge range & speed,(on a side-note I experience roughly 1/2 of my spit sticks arent detected, maybe due to some invincible frames happening when humans dodge or use medkit?) and your UV depleted because 3 seconds of UV light will leave you limping. What is left to do for the night hunter? melee attacks.  and with what I stated above combined with UV light spamming from 1-4 survivors; you do the math.

 

The way it stands now, unless the hunter is willing to delve into melee combat there is not really a viable way for the hunter to combat decent - skilled survivor players. I understand the humans are supposed to have the melee advantage, and the night hunter is supposed to have the stealth advantage, But the survivor gets the melee advantage, and the hunter gets nothing. As they always have the tag on you with constant survivor sense tracking. plainly redicoulus UV range, their very own tendril locomotor in the form of a grappling hook. and the camouflage skill, which I feel would be better suited as a hunter tool. 

 

As the balance is quite delicate in multiplayer games, here are a few suggestions: 

 

- make the survivor sense, give the direction of the hunter, and make it a cool down. not a long one, but something around 5-10 seconds. 

- give the night hunter a faster spit recharge

- give the uv-light a shorter range, like 30-40% reduction.

- give uv light shorter duration

 

Thanks for reading!

Edited by Nipple

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"(it does evolve better than evolve)"

 

Seriously. Couldn't agree more with that one. Evolve is the backseat multiplayer of another game with a great single player tackled on. What were they thinking?

 

 

I have been playing a fair share of battles - both as a survivor and a night hunter, and it's become apparent to me how unbalanced the game is in the survivors favour. This is coming from a relatively unbiased point of view, as I enjoy playing as the hunter and the survivor. 

 

I could write 10 pages worth of text as with different scenarios I've encountered which has left me puzzeled. But I will keep it short and to the point with what is (IMO) the problems with the game mode. 

 

Melee combat 

 

In dying light, the Hunter is penalized and punished for mistakes made in the melee department. While the Survivor meets punishment to a much less of an extent

 

comparison 1

 

Night hunter: If a night hunter misses a ground pound, you are pretty much guaranteed a death against a relatively skilled player, the 3 hit quota is very much used up by the time the animation is finished.  

 

Human: if the human tries and fails a drop kick attack (which in most cases hits because of the magnetism in the game, on par with death from above) there is very little chance the survivor will die from that mistake, as the hunters melee attacks are weaker and slower.

 

Comparison 2

 

Night hunter: Against experienced players, a night hunters attempted tackle is usually met with eating dirt and general dismay, and attempting to kill a human with chaining tackles is not really an option.

 

Human: should the survivor attempt a drop kick on a night hunter, it will undoubtedly hit, even if the night hunter jumps beforehand to avoid the attack the strong gravitational pull of the attacks will most likely pull the night hunter back into the games desired position. and if one drop kick wasn't enough, it's not really a problem. Because for the humans the drop kick is in every right unavoidable and very much repeatable until the night hunter is no more. 

 

Now a few people and the devs would argue "oh, nipple. The night hunter is made for stealth and not close quarters, you are not supposed to go toe-to-toe with humans" 

 

With your spits used up (which i believe has about 1 minute recharge time 1v1) and missed due to survivors excessive dodge range & speed, and your UV depleted because 3 seconds of UV light will leave you limping. What is left to do for the night hunter? melee attacks. (on a side-note I experience roughly 1/2 of my spit sticks arent detected, maybe due to some invincible frames happening when humans dodge or use medkit?) and with what I stated above combined with UV light spamming from 1-4 survivors; you do the math.

 

The way it stands now, unless the hunter is willing to delve into melee combat there is not really a viable way for the hunter to combat decent - skilled survivor players. I understand the humans are supposed to have the melee advantage, and the night hunter is supposed to have the stealth advantage, But the survivor gets the melee advantage, and the hunter gets nothing. As they always have the tag on you with constant survivor sense tracking. plainly redicoulus UV range, their very own tendril locomotor in the form of a grappling hook. and the camouflage skill, which I feel would be better suited as a hunter tool. 

 

As the balance is quite delicate in multiplayer games, here are a few suggestions: 

 

- make the survivor sense, give the direction of the hunter, and make it a cool down. not a long one, but something around 5-10 seconds. 

- give the night hunter a faster spit recharge

- give the uv-light a shorter range, like 30-40% reduction.

- give uv light shorter duration

 

Thanks for reading!

 

Honestly, this is a pretty solid post with a strong argument. The only thing I would do is take out the "give the UV Light a shorter duration" point, only because I think it's pretty essential that Humans have their UV Lights. Without it, they either resort to Flare spam or die.

 

Instead, I would say just put a much, much harsher penalty on abusing the UV Light so much that the Human actually depletes it. I've faced plenty of strong Humans who click the Light on and off continuously - which is a smart move - but even they use it all the way up sometimes.

 

Frankly, at that point, I don't think it should come back at all in that life. If they've honestly blared their UV Light for that long, it shouldn't come back in a few seconds. the Hunter won't be able to get his shields back before it regenerates enough to be used again, making abusing the UV Light basically a moot point punishment-wise. It's a little silly.

 

I'm all for the UV Light range being dropped, but even 30% is a bit much. If Hunters can hang out on top of buildings and snipe with Spits outside the Humans' range, they will, and that won't be fun for the Human players. Shorten it, definitely, but not too much, and nowhere near below the range of Pounce.

 

Otherwise, awesome points, and I wholly agree! :3

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Thanks man, I was trying to formulate my argument as neutral as possible. and I while I agree with the UV being essential to the survivor the way it stands you can deplete the hunters UV 5 times over before it runs out. so was making a few suggestions which would make the game more balanced. that suggestion might not have been the most viable. 

 

I also feel the tactics you have to resort to to get a kill against a skilled survivor is pretty rediculous. 

 

BTW love your youtube vids, think I've watched most of them haha!

 

 

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UV light either needs a range reduction or duration/cool down change. Both is too much in imo and will leave them defenseless at times.

 

The UV is a defensive tool. It should not be used to HUNT the night HUNTER.

I agree, and yes, the two UV light suggestions was meant as pick one of them. I don't want all of the suggestions implemented simultaneously obviously 

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"(it does evolve better than evolve)"

 

Seriously. Couldn't agree more with that one. Evolve is the backseat multiplayer of another game with a great single player tackled on. What were they thinking?

 

 

 

Honestly, this is a pretty solid post with a strong argument. The only thing I would do is take out the "give the UV Light a shorter duration" point, only because I think it's pretty essential that Humans have their UV Lights. Without it, they either resort to Flare spam or die.

 

Instead, I would say just put a much, much harsher penalty on abusing the UV Light so much that the Human actually depletes it. I've faced plenty of strong Humans who click the Light on and off continuously - which is a smart move - but even they use it all the way up sometimes.

 

Frankly, at that point, I don't think it should come back at all in that life. If they've honestly blared their UV Light for that long, it shouldn't come back in a few seconds. the Hunter won't be able to get his shields back before it regenerates enough to be used again, making abusing the UV Light basically a moot point punishment-wise. It's a little silly.

 

I'm all for the UV Light range being dropped, but even 30% is a bit much. If Hunters can hang out on top of buildings and snipe with Spits outside the Humans' range, they will, and that won't be fun for the Human players. Shorten it, definitely, but not too much, and nowhere near below the range of Pounce.

 

Otherwise, awesome points, and I wholly agree! :3

i personally think that uv range should only be 1and half times pounce range not 5 times 

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strong topic everything is very agreed apon and yes nipple the dodge is broken when u stick with spit u can see it on my post as well as an example from jcks the dodge completely warps the human outta the range of well anything even groundpounds a spamming human point blank can dodge into the hunter and still remain unaffected as well as them dodging outta spit aoe spots or all together sticky spits and send them to another dimension humans are op as heck yes anyone that has played a hunter for a week will tell you they are not impossible but given you face the right human they are impossible because of all the reason you all have posted props to all

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They should also patch it so hunters dont have unlimited tendril use and so they cant pounce threw walls iv been tackeld multiple times threw vans and buildings there should also be a cooldown on the multi tackel been in a few game where the hunter was just jumping from 1 person to the next over and over

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They should also patch it so hunters dont have unlimited tendril use and so they cant pounce threw walls iv been tackeld multiple times threw vans and buildings there should also be a cooldown on the multi tackel been in a few game where the hunter was just jumping from 1 person to the next over and over

bad bad bad human

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They should also patch it so hunters dont have unlimited tendril use and so they cant pounce threw walls iv been tackeld multiple times threw vans and buildings there should also be a cooldown on the multi tackel been in a few game where the hunter was just jumping from 1 person to the next over and over

 

I say we just remove the hunters claws, and spits and pounces as well then man. Cus if you're gonna remove his only advantage; agility from the game. then there's really no point

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I say we just remove the hunters claws, and spits and pounces as well then man. Cus if you're gonna remove his only advantage; agility from the game. then there's really no point

Well now hold on, I think we can make a trade here.

 

No more Locomotion for the Night Hunter, and no more legs for the Humans.

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Nice Post Nipple, I agree with your points.

 

        UV Light:

  • Reduce the starting range of the UV Light. Low battery reduces effective range.   
  • Slower Recharge when fully drained, Increased delay when more Humans present.

 

Night Hunter

  • The Night Hunter Health and Melee Attack Speed should scale up when VS more Humans.
  • The Night Hunter should be afforded the Ability to Evade Drop Kicks.

 

Humans

  • Drop Kicks should have a longer windup to Initialise. At Least 5 paces at full Running Speed.
  • Survivor Sense should only reveal the general direction of The Night Hunter and be subject to a cool down.
  • Medpack Use, should be Effective Over time and not Instantly [same as Hard Mode]
  • Humans making Noise either with Explosives or Guns, should be punished in some way, Viral Attack maybe?
Edited by Chaos_Deception

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Nice Post Nipple, I agree with your points.

 

        UV Light:

  • Reduce the starting range of the UV Light. Low battery reduces effective range.   
  • Slower Recharge when fully drained, Increased delay when more Humans present.

 

Night Hunter

  • The Night Hunter Health and Melee Attack Speed should scale up when VS more Humans.
  • The Night Hunter should be afforded the Ability to Evade Drop Kicks.

 

Humans

  • Drop Kicks should have a longer windup to Initialise. At Least 5 paces at full Running Speed.
  • Survivor Sense should only reveal the general direction of The Night Hunter and be subject to a cool down.
  • Medpack Use, should be Effective Over time and not Instantly [same as Hard Mode] and subject to a cool down.
  • Humans making Noise either with Explosives or Guns, should be punished in some way, Viral Attack maybe?

 

medpack work like hard mode no cd needed 

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lol i never understood why they never gave the nighthunter the ability to dodge or interupt there attack seeing he is an Clever and FAST and QUICKEST zombie outta them all but hes not fast enough to jump away from a 50ft DFA drop that locks u down even when they are not close and a 20ft DK that again locks you in place

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Lol wow you guys wana nerf every littel thing for the human but are agenst patching it so the hunter cant takel threw walls ... lol bigets

the hunter does not simple pounce through walls he see you gets the pounce and if u dont have your uv light on pounces animation throws him through the wall you fault again for dieing uv spam more

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Funny because I find it extremely unbalanced for the human. The zombies are way overpowered and I find it extremely difficult to kill them. They need to fix this or I don't really care to return to the pvp matches anymore. 

Edited by UntoldLegends1

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Funny because I find it extremely unbalanced for the human. The zombies are way overpowered and I find it extremely difficult to kill them. They need to fix this or I don't really care to return to the pvp matches anymore.

The Zombies? You mean the bitters? Extremely difficult to kill? Hahahaha what?

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Funny because I find it extremely unbalanced for the human. The zombies are way overpowered and I find it extremely difficult to kill them. They need to fix this or I don't really care to return to the pvp matches anymore. 

this guys never played hunter

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The Zombies? You mean the bitters? Extremely difficult to kill? Hahahaha what?

Then tell me how to kill them now since the patch made them pretty hard to kill. I feel like I spend too much time trying to kill one and it's almost guaranteed that the hunter will jump me while I'm busy.

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Then tell me how to kill them now since the patch made them pretty hard to kill. I feel like I spend too much time trying to kill one and it's almost guaranteed that the hunter will jump me while I'm busy.

easiest ways are to NOT ATTACK THE NEST FIRST, then you tackle or drop kick and follow up with instant kill or take down the zombie from behind(flare and takedown works well) 

 

i swear if i can beat a level 20 hunter at level 5/4/5 why are high level people complaining about it so much

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Then tell me how to kill them now since the patch made them pretty hard to kill. I feel like I spend too much time trying to kill one and it's almost guaranteed that the hunter will jump me while I'm busy.

Let me save your life Citizen :)

 

Pro Tip: Kill the Bitters around the Nest first BEFORE attack the Nest, if you attack the Nest with all the Bitters around, they transform in Virals and you are going to have a hard time :)

 

Good Night

Good Luck

And welcome to the Survivor Master Race 😎

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I agree that the regular zombies have a too much health. I think there should be more zombies that spawn in general AND when noise is made but with much less health, unless the zombies health scales with the survivors weapons attack that is.

 

Too bad techland probably wont make any of the changes here even though most are reasonable even from more experienced players (not myself).

 

I love to play both sides as well.

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In terms of the humans not having as much punishment for things such as missing ground pounds (for the hunter) In the new update, devs are adding it so you can no longer roll out of a drop attack attempt as a human. So you gotta commit to it, if the zombie moves out of the way, you have to take the fall damage

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