jande135

To All Those Complaining About Underpowered Zombie

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actually i've played some game as a survivor without the survivor sense and ... well the game become far less one sided

the sound is your best friend and your sight because ... in the night unless it rain you can see the NH in the sky. and seriously to take a spite ... unless you are careless you can dodge it

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As far as Survivor Sense goes and the people making cases for eliminating it altogether:

 

The hunter's pounce ability is based on contextual activation.  Combine this with the hunters movement speed and tendril locomotion, a human without survivor sense has very little chance of survival.  If the hunter rushes in from long distance, tendrils in from above, and pounces before the hunter can locate the hunter's orientation.  Elimination of Survivor Sense would require a complete overhaul on the game's foundation.  (Plus, all the people currently complaining how difficult it is to kill humans will now be complaining about how difficult it is to spot the hunter before getting murdered.)

 

I'll use Left 4 Dead as an example.  Survivors in L4D do not have any sort of radar.  This is balanced out by brighter environments (you can still see into the distance at night) and effective flashlights.  Neither of these things exist for the humans in Dying Light.  In DL, nighttime is oppressively dark and the flashlight provides vision to things that are more or less in your immediate area.  (A case can be made for using potions...)

The L4D hunter must be exactly that: a hunter.  The hunter must crouch and allow the pounce to charge.  They must also aim their pounce.  There is a margin of error here that is non existent for the hunter in DL.  

 

I do not think you can remove Survivor Sense without removing the hunter's contextual pounce OR making the environments less dark/increase flashlight effectiveness.

 

While I agree with many here who say the Hunter is UP, I have to agree with Jande on the importance of the survivors sense for a human player. Simply put, I do not think a Survivor will fair very well against a Hunter, let alone a high level hunter without the aid of SS. Even with the added notifications of heavy breathing, howl, foot steps etc, I believe this will not be enough. Personally, when engaging survivors, I don't give a dam n if they know where I am. I can still manage to pounce on them simply by angling the hunters body in a position favorable for a strike. Simply by looking away by just an inch I can manage a pounce. It didn't matter that he knew of my position. Now imagine no SS. A survivor will turn frantically trying to get a beat on me. He knows I am around, but doesn't know where exactly. I see he's turned and pounce. Glorious to be sure, and a bit of long awaited retribution for a Hunter, but painful for a Survivor. 

 

If they do feel the urge to tweak SS, the most I would hope they would change is perhaps the effective range or follow the suggestions of what Jande gave if they choose to eliminate SS.

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I can show where he is on the map but it doesn't need to ping his exact position in game either as well as telling you on the map if he is above or below you.

 

Might as well just do away with sensing completely and show survivors and hunters positions on the map at all times. It'll save everyone from having to spam sonars every 5 seconds.

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Guys, have you actually tried playing without SS? I played 10+ battles without using it and the Hunters didn't even believe me (I told them beforehand). Here's typical situation:

1) Hunter joins the game.

2) Run towards the nests.

3) You hear the scream, knowing the general direction of the Hunter.

4) Run a little more, hear your character say "Something's not right".

5) Slow down, choose more open area/climb on top of a building and LISTEN. Tendrils are SO loud you can hear them miles away.

6) Narrow the Hunters location down to a direction and look that way. If you're right, his health will appear all over your screen.

7) Flash UV for a split second. If you're right, you'll hit the Hunter (because of radius and range of your Flashlight) and LIGHT HIM UP like a christmas tree.

8) Piece of cake now. You know where he is and you can always make him easily visible with his glowing skin from UV light.

 

Yes, the game is slower. You can't run blindly knowing he's far away. You have to watch him, track his movement. He's so loud!

 

Seriously, try it out first before saying it's not possible.

 

P.S.: I'm a PC player so it might be more difficult with controller.

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Guys, have you actually tried playing without SS? I played 10+ battles without using it and the Hunters didn't even believe me (I told them beforehand). Here's typical situation:

1) Hunter joins the game.

2) Run towards the nests.

3) You hear the scream, knowing the general direction of the Hunter.

4) Run a little more, hear your character say "Something's not right".

5) Slow down, choose more open area/climb on top of a building and LISTEN. Tendrils are SO loud you can hear them miles away.

6) Narrow the Hunters location down to a direction and look that way. If you're right, his health will appear all over your screen.

7) Flash UV for a split second. If you're right, you'll hit the Hunter (because of radius and range of your Flashlight) and LIGHT HIM UP like a christmas tree.

8) Piece of cake now. You know where he is and you can always make him easily visible with his glowing skin from UV light.

 

Yes, the game is slower. You can't run blindly knowing he's far away. You have to watch him, track his movement. He's so loud!

 

Seriously, try it out first before saying it's not possible.

 

P.S.: I'm a PC player so it might be more difficult with controller.

 

I don't think that anyone is saying the game is impossible without Survivor Sense.  I will admit that I completely forgot that the hunter's skin glows after being hit by UV light.  That does make a lack of Survivor Sense a little more viable.  But as the game stands today, eliminating SS would require some serious reworking of the foundation (again, most notably the hunter's contextual pounce and oppressively dark nighttime coupled with weak flashlight).

 

Does anyone else see the irony here that people are basically asking survivors to be smarter and more aware instead of relying on SS?  The same way I was asking people to rely on skill and awareness when playing as a hunter?

 

I have what I believe to be a fair compromise:

What if the SS didn't show the movement of the hunter, but instead just show a stationary dot on the radar?  Pair that with a 2 or 3 second cooldown and I think that would be a good mix of some the ideas shared here (at least in regard to SS).  

 

I would suggest splitting the matchmaking hoppers with a Normal or Hardcore option, but seeing as this game is hemorrhaging players like a 1930's stock market, that doesn't seem to be a constructive alternative.

Edited by jande135

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I don't think that anyone is saying the game is impossible without Survivor Sense.  I will admit that I completely forgot that the hunter's skin glows after being hit by UV light.  That does make a lack of Survivor Sense a little more viable.  But as the game stands today, eliminating SS would require some serious reworking of the foundation (again, most notably the hunter's contextual pounce and oppressively dark nighttime coupled with weak flashlight).

 

 

Seeing at night isn't that difficult. The flashlight is also not weak. The only thing you really lose at night is most of your peripheral vision but night hunter potions and night vision potions eliminate the any threat of low visibility.

 

 

Does anyone else see the irony here that people are basically asking survivors to be smarter and more aware instead of relying on SS?  The same way I was asking people to rely on skill and awareness when playing as a hunter?

 

No.

 

Because survivors don't need to play smart, night hunters do. If the night hunter had it as easy as the survivors do then there'd be irony, there's nothing ironic about this situation.

 

 

I have what I believe to be a fair compromise:

What if the SS didn't show the movement of the hunter, but instead just show a stationary dot on the radar?  Pair that with a 2 or 3 second cooldown and I think that would be a good mix of some the ideas shared here (at least in regard to SS).  

 

This has been suggested before. Honestly either a cool down or getting rid of the ping would be fine. Right now they might as well cut out the extra work of making you spam the sense button and have the night hunter on the map at all times.

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Without SS, you're expecting survivors to be smarter and more aware of their surroundings. You're asking the same things of an SS deprived survivor that I'm asking of night hunters now.

Not trying to be confrontational, but that is ironic by definition.

 

I think I'm just extra weary when it comes to toying with a game's mechanics. Especially multiplayer. I remember Epic doing a ridiculous number of tweaks to Gears of War 2 that more or less destroyed the fun of the game.

 

We all want the same thing. Honestly this is one of the greatest multiplayer experiences I've played in a while. It scratches all the itches that I was hoping Evolve would.

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Without SS, you're expecting survivors to be smarter and more aware of their surroundings. You're asking the same things of an SS deprived survivor that I'm asking of night hunters now.

Not trying to be confrontational, but that is ironic by definition.

 

Survivors don't need to be aware of their surroundings the way night hunters do. You're asking hunters to do something they already do, something they are forced to do because of survivor sense. What would be ironic is if you were asking night hutners to not use howling the way we are asking survivors not to use SS since that would be the opposite situation not advising hunters to do something which they do anyways (general situational awareness in order to set up traps/kills). Survivors are literally warned by their character when the night hunter is near and from there all they need to do is spam SS to keep eyes on him at all times (all without making a sound mind you). The night hunter doesn't have that luxury.

 

I'll will admit though the night hunters sonar is leagues better than the survivor because he can see their bodies through walls (the "wall hacks" most survivors complain about). But that should be a given since he is, you know, a hunter.

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They don't need to be smarter, just more aware. Their character will notify them when the hunter is near and from there they just need to look around and pay attention to sounds from the hunter which there are a lot of.

 

Do you not think they should be more aware instead knowing where their killer is at all times? Imagine how much easier Resident Evil 3 would be if you knew where Nemesis was at all times and could instantly shut him down the moment he revealed himself to you.

Edited by jcks

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They don't need to be smarter, just more aware. Their character will notify them when the hunter is near and from there they just need to look around and pay attention to sounds from the hunter which there are a lot of.

 

Do you not think they should be more aware instead knowing where their killer is at all times? Imagine how much easier Resident Evil 3 would be if you knew where Nemesis was at all times and could instantly shut him down the moment he revealed himself to you.

I don't think that SS should be done away with altogether. Like I said earlier, I think a ping that reveals the zombie's location as a stationary marker (as in it only shows the location the moment you ping and no motion after) with a short cool down would be balanced and fair. I don't like the idea of clumsily swinging a flashlight around trying to figure out which direction the zombie is coming from. Again, I only say this because of the hunters context sensitive pounce. The pounce is guaranteed unless the survivor spots you, but let's be honest here: if you were playing me, there's no way you'll spot me before I pounce you. SS needs to stay in some capacity.

 

I actually never played RE3 but I have seen let's plays of the game. That comparison doesn't necessarily hold up here due to the hunter's instakill, context sensitive pounce (again...).

 

What platform do you play on?

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Jande135 as it stands, even if you got the drop on me and started your Pounce Animation. I would just UV You out of it at the last moment.

 

Because for some reason. That is something the Humans are able to do. I highly doubt this was Intentional.

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I don't think it should completely go to but the way it is now is not very balanced. It's basically the same thing as having the zombie always be on your radar except they make you do the extra work of spamming SS every 2 seconds.

 

And even if you did pounce me before I spotted you unless you were right on top of me a last minute UV would stop you. A pounce makes the survivor "snap" to your position so you need to be above or below their eye level to prevent a last minute UV from interrupting you.

 

The comparison with RE3 is that you are being hunted by something powerful and part of the challenge is not knowing where your enemy is. And on top of that when you do meet with him it's not as easy flashing him away. The real challenge is trying to get away alive. Not saying that needs to a part of this mode but it's a little silly how easily one person can take on the hunter while everyone else is out destroying the nests, not to mention there's no need to fear being stalked since you always know where he is.

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Jande135 as it stands, even if you got the drop on me and started your Pounce Animation. I would just UV You out of it at the last moment.

 

Because for some reason. That is something the Humans are able to do. I highly doubt this was Intentional.

When you say, "as it stands," are you referring to the a scenario with or without SS? Because I am talking about a scenario where there is no SS. If you guys want to test it on me, I'll be more than happy to try it out and see how it goes.

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I don't think it should completely go to but the way it is now is not very balanced. It's basically the same thing as having the zombie always be on your radar except they make you do the extra work of spamming SS every 2 seconds.

I don't think I'm being clear enough when I describe the new ping system I have visioned in my mind.  Think about the way the motion tracker works in the movie Aliens.  Each ping shows the location of the alien BUT it does not actually show the dot as mobile.  The dot only appears with each ping.  You cannot see where the alien in motion or where it is for more than a second at a time.  

 

 

And even if you did pounce me before I spotted you unless you were right on top of me a last minute UV would stop you. A pounce makes the survivor "snap" to your position so you need to be above or below their eye level to prevent a last minute UV from interrupting you.

This is news to me if it's true.

 

 

The comparison with RE3 is that you are being hunted by something powerful and part of the challenge is not knowing where your enemy is. And on top of that when you do meet with him it's not as easy flashing him away. The real challenge is trying to get away alive. Not saying that needs to a part of this mode but it's a little silly how easily one person can take on the hunter while everyone else is out destroying the nests, not to mention there's no need to fear being stalked since you always know where he is.

Nemesis can't instantly kill you with a single unmissable button press, which again can be stopped by UV, but without some sort of SS the hunter's contextual pounce becomes unreasonably overpowered (in my opinion...).  Though, I do agree that the survivors should have some anxiety when facing a hunter.  

 

**What platform do you play on jcks?

Edited by jande135

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I don't think I'm being clear enough when I describe the new ping system I have visioned in my mind.  Think about the way the motion tracker works in the movie Aliens.  Each ping shows the location of the alien BUT it does not actually show the dot as mobile.  The dot only appears with each ping.  You cannot see where the alien in motion or where it is for more than a second at a time. 

This is news to me if it's true.

 

This is not true. Here is what happens. Hunter initiates Pounce and there is small window where humans have a last second chance to interrupt. This is denoted by a white flash on their screen. The game does nothing at this point to have the human face the hunter. If they don't react fast enough the pounce is confirmed and the hunter gets the kill. In this case the human's body is visually rotate to look at the Hunter even if he was looking the other way. If the human does get the interrupt then the again the humans visuals get rotated to face the hunter. So either way the human is rotated to face the hunter as a result of a pounce but the game does not assist the human in seeing the hunter until after it is too late to do anything about it.

 

The reason for making the human always face the hunter is to get animations to line up and to help players understand what just happened.

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This is not true. Here is what happens. Hunter initiates Pounce and there is small window where humans have a last second chance to interrupt. This is denoted by a white flash on their screen. The game does nothing at this point to have the human face the hunter. If they don't react fast enough the pounce is confirmed and the hunter gets the kill. In this case the human's body is visually rotate to look at the Hunter even if he was looking the other way. If the human does get the interrupt then the again the humans visuals get rotated to face the hunter. So either way the human is rotated to face the hunter as a result of a pounce but the game does not assist the human in seeing the hunter until after it is too late to do anything about it.

 

The reason for making the human always face the hunter is to get animations to line up and to help players understand what just happened.

George, thanks for being so active here. Regarding the post, did you mean to quote this guy?

 

"And even if you did pounce me before I spotted you unless you were right on top of me a last minute UV would stop you. A pounce makes the survivor "snap" to your position so you need to be above or below their eye level to prevent a last minute UV from interrupting you."

 

It's nice to know there isn't a "snap" assist, even I assumed that. Then again, I rarely ever play as Humans.

 

Is turn speed reduced once the Pounce is initiated, or is the Human free to turn regularly? Just curious.

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I don't think I'm being clear enough when I describe the new ping system I have visioned in my mind.  Think about the way the motion tracker works in the movie Aliens.  Each ping shows the location of the alien BUT it does not actually show the dot as mobile.  The dot only appears with each ping.  You cannot see where the alien in motion or where it is for more than a second at a time.  

 

 

This is news to me if it's true.

 

 

Nemesis can't instantly kill you with a single unmissable button press, which again can be stopped by UV, but without some sort of SS the hunter's contextual pounce becomes unreasonably overpowered (in my opinion...).  Though, I do agree that the survivors should have some anxiety when facing a hunter.  

 

**What platform do you play on jcks?

 

I get what you're saying, that's been suggested before on here and I would agree with that. What I'm saying is that currently there is no difference between having him always on the map or using survivor sense other than the extra step of having to spam survivor sense every 2 seconds. It would be more beneficial to keep him on the map at all times since that's basically all they're doing anyways.

 

I'm using Nemesis as an example for a hunter who can appear at any time and can't be tracked. I'm not comparing his ability to kill but rather how much less tense the situation would be if you always knew where he was and could avoid him the entire game.

 

I play on PS4.

 

 

This is not true. Here is what happens. Hunter initiates Pounce and there is small window where humans have a last second chance to interrupt. This is denoted by a white flash on their screen. The game does nothing at this point to have the human face the hunter. If they don't react fast enough the pounce is confirmed and the hunter gets the kill. In this case the human's body is visually rotate to look at the Hunter even if he was looking the other way. If the human does get the interrupt then the again the humans visuals get rotated to face the hunter. So either way the human is rotated to face the hunter as a result of a pounce but the game does not assist the human in seeing the hunter until after it is too late to do anything about it.

 

The reason for making the human always face the hunter is to get animations to line up and to help players understand what just happened.

 

I'm confused.

 

So whether they interrupt or not the game still visually turns them towards the hunter for animation purposes right? Is that small window of time the only chance they have to stop a pounce? From what I understand that small window is the only chance they have to activate their UV. Once they do the UV light stays on the entire time even when they are turning. If you as so much dip one toe in that light while pouncing it gets interrupted.

 

I actually had a match last night where I pounced someone from above and they had their back to me. He did almost a full 180 degree turn before dying from the pounce, with his UV light on the whole time. If I were on the same eye level as him I would not have gotten that pounce. I've also been in numerous situations where I pounce people from the front but way above their eye level only to have them look up at the last second and UV cancel me.

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jcks likely what you are experience is latency inherent in any networked game. It's really quick to turn one's camera in the game and there's no way to replicate this over a network fast enough. On his machine he turned to face you in time but on your machine it looks like he turned to face you much later in the pounce sequence. If we relied only on what the Hunter sees the humans would never be able to do a last second interrupt.

 

DoctorPurrington: The humans have full control over their camera during the interrupt window but they can't move anymore.

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jcks likely what you are experience is latency inherent in any networked game. It's really quick to turn one's camera in the game and there's no way to replicate this over a network fast enough. On his machine he turned to face you in time but on your machine it looks like he turned to face you much later in the pounce sequence. If we relied only on what the Hunter sees the humans would never be able to do a last second interrupt.

 

DoctorPurrington: The humans have full control over their camera during the interrupt window but they can't move anymore.

Gotcha, thank you. That'll be good to keep in mind.

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jcks likely what you are experience is latency inherent in any networked game. It's really quick to turn one's camera in the game and there's no way to replicate this over a network fast enough. On his machine he turned to face you in time but on your machine it looks like he turned to face you much later in the pounce sequence. If we relied only on what the Hunter sees the humans would never be able to do a last second interrupt.

 

DoctorPurrington: The humans have full control over their camera during the interrupt window but they can't move anymore.

 

I see.

 

I'm guessing there was no way to make this easier to deal with as the hunter? It's very misleading when I see a pounce opportunity only to have them face me at the last second and UV me out of it.

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George

 

Please can you Explain why Aim Assist is present in what is primarily a Melee Focused Game.

 

Me and My Cousin Sty3ler06 have tested this out. Me as a Human and Him as the Night Hunter.

 

When the Night Hunter Jumps over Crane, from the Side, Behind or Above, The Canera will jerk towards the Night Hunter even without Input.

 

Aim Assist is also present when engaging in Melee Combat with the Night Hunter.

 

Drop Kick once locked on to the Night Hunter will Elevate Crane sometimes as High as a Bus and the Attack will connect.

 

Is there any way to Tweak this so that Drop Kicks only Activate when the Night Hunter is within a reachable Dropkick height.

 

Thank You.

Edited by Chaos_Deception

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Drop Kick once locked on to the Night Hunter will Elevate Crane sometimes as High as a Bus and the Attack will connect.

 

Is there any way to Tweak this so that Drop Kicks only Activate when the Night Hunter is within a reachable Dropkick height.

 

Thank You.

 

That was killing me last night.

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