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Radikal

Where Is The Proof That You Support Modders Techland?

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Instead of just separating unmoded and moded games, now you need THE EXACT SAME DATA in order to see each other.

 

-First we got region locked public multiplayer loby.

-Now we moded data users need to get the exact same data to see each other.

 

How far this company would do to keep segmenting playerbase???

 

Just make a lobby for people with moded or unmoded game, also enable option to allow option to create room that only available if you have certain mod. In my region, there are barely any game available before this patch and now there are none....NONE!!! do you really have to push me this far to use network service and probably play with people that have cracked games?

Edited by Radikal

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I, too, would like to know the answer to this question.

 

As far as I can tell, 1.4.0 broke mod support completely or they disabled the ability to remap the controller through scripts.  All I want to do is jump with the A button and I had a great mod I wrote to do this.  Now it's broken and nothing I've tried works.  Even if I fix it, I won't be able to play online.  An in-game controller re-map feature or an exclusion to data\scripts\input\* matching for online play would be really, really nice.

 

I also don't think it's fair that Techland is sharing exclusive information about mod support with the guy who writes Dying Light Manager.  Everyone should have access to the same information so they can do their own thing with mods without having to download sketchy EXEs from the Internet.

 

Techland: Please describe how we enable and implement mods now.  Putting the override scripts in %USERPROFILE%\Documents\DyingLight no longer functions in 1.4.0

 

Thanks!

Edited by Obsurveyor

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Techland need to be careful what they allow in multiplayer. I think it's a great move to allow people to play if they're using the same mod. That's a step up from not letting people play if they have modded files.

 

However as has been mentioned, certain files need to be excluded from this. Being able to remap keys needs to be allowed, but we don't want to allow people who change graphical properties unless everyone has the change, or skills, or exp gain etc etc.

 

They're walking a thin line and I'm sure they'll come up with something, but for now, their main concern has to be preventing unmodded gamers from having a bad multiplayer experience. If you and your friends want to use a mod, you'll need to make sure you're all using the same one. As for matchmaking, that may have to wait a little until they can start adding exclusions to the files people need to tweak input settings and other files that wont unbalance a game.

 

Just my 2p.

 

-Shockr

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 I think it's a great move to allow people to play if they're using the same mod.

 

Nope it's actually a bad idea since you need the EXACT SAME DATA in order to be able to see each other, instead of creating different lobby for moded and unmoded client. finding matchmaking in certain region is already hard, and now this.

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Nope it's actually a bad idea since you need the EXACT SAME DATA in order to be able to see each other, instead of creating different lobby for moded and unmoded client. finding matchmaking in certain region is already hard, and now this.

 

how many lobby's do you need then? if you have 10 different mods you want 10 different lobbies? you don't seem to understand, if I run Mod A and you run Mod B - we should not be able to play together. If you run Mod A and I ran Mod A we should be able to play together, everything else just makes no sense?

 

What if you have a mod that modifies AI Behaviour? If I don't have this mod installed and we would play together, this would cause problems.

 

The same problems you had before Patch 1.4.0. If you connected to a player without any mods, and you had modified your game, it would have caused problems. Changes to the game files are CLIENT SIDE only. Meaning the stuff you change in your modified game is not transmitted / received by all clients.

 

The way they did it now with Patch 1.4.0 is perfect. It will make sure stuff like this won't happen, since playing together now requires everyone participating to have the same modified content.

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how many lobby's do you need then? if you have 10 different mods you want 10 different lobbies?

 

Why you need 10 lobby if you could create 1 "moded" lobby where everyone got their data modified can see each other, people who only want a specified mod can change the room rules via online option (i hope mod tool will able to do this, cross your finger). Seriously the answer is that simple, no need to think that far sheez.

 

Current patch restriction maybe doesn't affect already known modder like you and me, but for smaller content modder and newcomer? most likely it will be a long walk for them, since most of their user will probably a single player oriented, and this game are made for multiplayer content.

Edited by Radikal

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Yeah, you just let unmodded games play with unmodded games and let modded games play with modded games.  It shouldn't matter what the mods are.

 

As Shockr mentioned, there should be an exemption for mods that only affect the input bindings because there aren't any exploits associated with binding keyboards and controllers.

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Current patch restriction maybe doesn't affect already known modder like you and me, but for smaller content modder and newcomer? most likely it will be a long walk for them, since most of their user will probably a single player oriented, and this game are made for multiplayer content.

 

 

This doesn't affect me at all. The people I play coop with run exactly the same modifications I run. I don't use the matchmaking option at all.

 

 

 

Yeah, you just let unmodded games play with unmodded games and let modded games play with modded games.  It shouldn't matter what the mods are.

 

As Shockr mentioned, there should be an exemption for mods that only affect the input bindings because there aren't any exploits associated with binding keyboards and controllers.

 

that makes no sense at all, you run a mod that gives you unlimited ammo, a mod I dont run and I'm probably not even aware of you have modified? 

 

What if I have a mod that changes the gravity and you dont? How do you think the would turn out? It makes no sense to allow the game to play modded games together if they dont actually run the same modified content.

 

I think when it comes to UI modifications it should not matter. But for everything else, it should. If you don't run the exact same mod you should not be able to connect to eachother.

 

Ever tried modifying AI Behaviour and then playing with someone who does not have that particular modification in their game? Yea, you guessed right. It causes glitches and breakes the game.

Edited by KNG

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So what if it's unfair?  You're modding the game, you know the only people you're going to be playing with randomly are also modding the game.  It's the wild west and you shouldn't expect "fair". The only way you're going to get to play with anyone is to send them the same mod, have them remove any of theirs and you can still make changes you don't tell them about and still cheat.  It doesn't make sense to require identical mods because it's so unlikely to happen to match up in a public setting.

 

In a friends setting, why are you going to be cheating and breaking the game?  That just makes you a jerk.  It's going to take Techland time to implement Steam Workshop or some other means of making it more user friendly.  Until then, the restrictions should be loose, not extremely tight like they are now.

 

Mods don't even work(don't talk about Dying Light Manager) with 1.4.0 now, so it's all pretty pointless until Techland fixes things.

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This doesn't affect me at all. The people I play coop with run exactly the same modifications I run. I don't use the matchmaking option at all.

 

Ever tried modifying AI Behaviour and then playing with someone who does not have that particular modification in their game? Yea, you guessed right. It causes glitches and breakes the game.

 

1. Can you see other people who use different moded file? that is the real question over there.

2. Don't know what you are talking about since my mod run without ANY problem when playing on unmoded client. FYI, my mod does both clientside (weapon  throwable damage adjusting, loot variety, skill modifier) and serverside (AI modifying, aggresion modifier, spawnrate modifier) tried playing with many different unmoded people and none of them complain about performance problem.

 

 

@Obsurveyor: Try putting them inside out/data, mine also doesn't work after patch but work normaly when i put them inside the data folder.

Edited by Radikal

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thing is though they won't change the fact that you won't be able to play together without the same modified content. and that is how it should be and not the other way around where everyone can mod whatever they want and then expect to play together just fine. :)

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2. Don't know what you are talking about since my mod run without ANY problem when playing on unmoded client. FYI, my mod does both clientside (weapon  throwable damage adjusting, loot variety, skill modifier) and serverside (AI modifying, aggresion modifier, spawnrate modifier) tried playing with many different unmoded people and none of them complain about performance problem.

 

 

 

also, just as an example take the pumpgun mod. If you use the pumpgun mod and select it and I don't have pumpgun mod installed and we would play together I would not see you running around with the shotgun, instead I see you running around with the "ToyGun" or whatever it's called, I mean the Anti-Angoid Gun. That is because the information of you having the pumpgun equipped and holding it is not in my CLIENTS game information, hence "breaking the game".

 

Just a small example why it can't work out the way you want it to.

Edited by KNG

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Just a small example why it can't work out the way you want it to.

 

This is a bit disingenuous because having mods that other people didn't and playing with them has been working fine up until this morning's patch. :)

 

I did all kinds of screwed up stuff testing, like adding new strings to the localization file and dropping entirely new items that I created(not renames or re-use like your Toygun example) into friend's games and nothing happened.  They didn't have the item, so they didn't see anything.  I added new blueprints to my game and removed them and my save didn't get corrupt or anything.  I was quite surprised things didn't blow up.

Edited by Obsurveyor

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This is a bit disingenuous because having mods that other people didn't and playing with them has been working fine up until this morning's patch. :)

 

it did work, but it caused problems. do you even read what I was saying? 

 

we tested this in depth with a lot of modifications to the game in many cases it caused problems on all participating clients in the game. it may not cause a problem when you just mod your inventory size to be bigger but if you do some more deeper modifications to the game it always caused glitches and problems. Like I said before... We unlocked that one shotgun in the game and made it available to buy from the vendors... If a friend did not have this mod and we played together, which worked fine but caused a problem for him to see me run around with a another weapon mesh model then I actually was running around with (in this case the shotgun). Don't you understand that? Some stuff just isn't synced between players and I'm not talking about inventory size or ammo count in your weapon. Im talking about adding new weapons to loadouts etc. stuff you can do, but that causes problems if not ALL participating clients have the same modified files.

 

 

 

 created(not renames or re-use like your Toygun example) into friend's games and nothing happened.

 

sorry if I did not make that clear enough. I added a new Item, that uses a weapon mesh for the pumpgun that is currently not AVAILABLE in the vanilla game. through my modification you could buy that specific item from a vendor.

 

Now if I played with a friend who did NOT have that modified file that would hold the "new Item" information, including the MESH it would use, he would NOT see that new weapon mesh on my character equipped, instead he would see me run around with the "ToyGun".

Edited by KNG

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You call display issues problems when it's just display issues.  Problems would be client crashes and network desynchronization.  The unmodded game has all kinds of display issues when you're playing online, these are only problems in the sense that you're not seeing a perfect display of what's going on but it's entirely normal because network synchronization is a very hard problem and a perfect solution isn't typically worth the time.  You're blowing it way out of proportion.

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You call display issues problems when it's just display issues.  Problems would be client crashes and network desynchronization.  The unmodded game has all kinds of display issues when you're playing online, these are only problems in the sense that you're not seeing a perfect display of what's going on but it's entirely normal because network synchronization is a very hard problem and a perfect solution isn't typically worth the time.  You're blowing it way out of proportion.

 

 

Ok, if you don't believe me then install Super Aggressive Zombies Mod and play with a friend who does not have that mod. It will cause the game to glitch and you will have A LOT of weird behaving / running / missing Zombie Animations. 

 

Oh wait, that won't happen because you can't since both of you need to have the exact same modified files preventing EXACTLY this issue.

 

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So, all arguing aside..

 

Do we have a way of getting mods to work without using the Dying Light Manager? (Don't get me wrong, credit to this guy.. but I want my mod to run ok for everyone with just the game, not extra software)

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So, all arguing aside..

 

Do we have a way of getting mods to work without using the Dying Light Manager? (Don't get me wrong, credit to this guy.. but I want my mod to run ok for everyone with just the game, not extra software)

 

yes. that is how it is now as of patch 1.4.0 you don't need the manager anymore to "enable" mod support.

Edited by KNG

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As far as I can determine, they've thrown the baby out with the bathwater and disabled the file override in the %USERPROFILE%\Documents\DyingLight\data folder and totally ignore "Enable Mods=1" in the .cfg file with 1.4.0

 

The only way I have found to get mods into the game now is to replace the Data3.pak in the Steam folder with my own version.  Based on statements by the Dying Light Manager guy, I think he's basically injecting the mod data based on the old paths into the game when it attempts to read Data3.pak.

 

I hope Techland gives us some direction on what the proper way to mod the game is, but replacing their own distributed files is a bad way to do it.  This is bad because as soon as there's a patch, Steam is going to overwrite our mods.  The old way was better.  The game already knew it was overriding files when it read the Enable Mods flag.  It should use that as the trigger for modded game and hash the scripts it reads in against its checksums.

Edited by Obsurveyor

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As far as I can determine, they've thrown the baby out with the bathwater and disabled the file override in the %USERPROFILE%\Documents\DyingLight\data folder and totally ignore "Enable Mods=1" in the .cfg file with 1.4.0

 

The only way I have found to get mods into the game now is to replace the Data3.pak in the Steam folder with my own version.  Based on statements by the Dying Light Manager guy, I think he's basically injecting the mod data based on the old paths into the game when it attempts to read Data3.pak.

 

I hope Techland gives us some direction on what the proper way to mod the game is, but replacing their own distributed files is a bad way to do it.  This is bad because as soon as there's a patch, Steam is going to overwrite our mods.  The old way was better.  The game already knew it was overriding files when it read the Enable Mods flag.  It should use that as the trigger for modded game and hash the scripts it reads in against its checksums.

 

Sorry but this is incorrect. I did not have to manually repack anything. Just had my mods in My Documents\Dying Light\out\data and after I patched the game the modified data was automatically merged into data3.pak and I was greeted with the "you have modified data" message in the main menu.

 

I did not have to manually repack my modded files as data3.pak.

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The game does not behave that way for me, at least not for the data\scripts\input\inputs_pad.scr file I'm trying to replace.  I've been trying all the variations I've read about today as well as my own and repacking the data myself is the only way that has worked.  I don't like it but I'm sick of messing with something that would be crystal clear if Techland would have just stated what the right way to install mods was with the release notes.

 

I have never run Dying Light Manager, so I don't know if it's doing something to installs(it sure seems to be breaking installs for people now) to make the behavior you describe work.

Edited by Obsurveyor

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Yeah, This Seems Very Counterproductive to your current stance on modding. This won't allow me to play with my friends if I or any of them currently are rolling with mods. Left for dead does this right where your mods only affect the game client side and wouldn't cause any trouble server side.

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Yeah, This Seems Very Counterproductive to your current stance on modding. This won't allow me to play with my friends if I or any of them currently are rolling with mods. Left for dead does this right where your mods only affect the game client side and wouldn't cause any trouble server side.

 

then talk to eachother to find out what mods they're using. can't be that hard.

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So I've had no luck with the folders in the user profile. If I try my mod in /DyingLight/data or /DyingLight/data/out it still doesn't seem to load it.

 

However I have tried the method mentioned here, about repacking the mod into the data3.pak file and this seems to work.

 

I am, of course, not talking about using the manger app that's been so popular. I'm not sure if that uses the same method and would overwrite the data3.pak that I've created.

 

Any input guys?

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