James Gallagher

Be The Zombie Balancing Update - 12/1/2018

Recommended Posts

I agree we all have our on style. We play what is fun. That's what we play for. Ya I like a challenge but I also had fun being able to rain death on a hunter but now it is almost impossible. I just want some of the grab distance back. As far as tje other buffs i can handle them. They do tend to overwhelm you with spits sometimes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/12/2018 at 7:00 AM, James Gallagher said:

Hey everyone,

Towards the end of last year we asked for your feedback on the general balance of Be the Zombie mode. We were hearing that you felt the Night Hunter was underpowered, but we wanted hear your specific points on what you'd like to see us change.

Thanks for all of your input - based on what you told us we have made some changes to BtZ. These changes are now live:

Drop Attack (AKA 'Death from Above')
Height required increased
Grab distance reduced

UV Flashlight 
Distance reduced (in 2 vs. 1 to 4 vs. 1 matches)
Cool down time increased
Initial cost increased (so that flicking the flashlight on and off repeatedly drains it more quickly)

Spits
Explosion radius increased
Explosion delay reduced
Effect duration for Control The Horde and Light Disable increased
Cool down times decreased (in 3 vs. 1 and 4 vs. 1 matches)

Survivor Sense
Night Hunter now appears on Survivors' mini-map(s) for less time

Misc.
Auto-balance reduced overall.

 

We hope these changes make Btz even more enjoyable for everyone and, of course, please let us know what you think.
James

I’ve played this game since the beginning and in my humble opinion, this was a horrible move! I get what ur trying but it’s so lopsided for the Hunter that it’s almost unplayable! My friends who play hunters laugh because they know it’s so one-sided now. Insult to injury, many many ppl quit playing this game because of this change. As a loyal everyday player, I hope you reconsider changing back to the original! Nerfing the Human does nothing but piss players off!!! I have many additional comments but don’t want to sound like a whiner...just looking out for the best interest of this great game, so more ppl don’t leave & hopefully, word will get out and the players that left for other games will come back. Thank you 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/16/2018 at 7:13 AM, Survivor said:

I just want to say that regardless of who you are/how long you've played, you have no more right to an opinion about the game as someone who has played it for 10 minutes.

Yes. Emotions get a bit heated around here as the mode has undergone both negative and positive changes in the past and it is pretty common for proposals to be posted that are less thoughtful than what both of you seem to be getting at.

On 2/16/2018 at 7:13 AM, Survivor said:

About you saying I'm a "random player", neither of us have to prove anything, but I've beaten most, if not all the top tier PS4 hunter players... with just my fists. I've been playing the game since launch and shortly after its release is when I started to use just my fists.

Right, nobody has to prove they won the Olympics to share notes and opinions; and that all of it can be accomplished with minimum toxicity. In the end, everybody is interested that the game mode be as fun as possible. And while I've used fists at times, I can't say that I meet many players who'll work on integrating that into their play. But indeed, the option exists and for an open world game that restricts all the fancy survivor weapons in PvP for alleged balancing purposes, your play and the questions it raises are an issue.

Tackles through objects is something the community found to be a cool part of the game mode's unpolished and gritty style when it was added. But it's not just aesthetic because the ability, with adequate constraints, forces survivors to pay more attention to the approaching hunter, even if they may be separated by solid objects/buildings, while granting the hunter more interesting lines for tackles. This is the kind of "broke" that most folks agreed they wanted. You may want to elaborate on the flash radius idea and show us an example of the perpendicular thing to clarify things.  

On 2/16/2018 at 7:13 AM, Survivor said:

If there was only one way to play any game, nobody would play video games because they would be stale and boring.

Indeed. My preference would be for more wiggle room in this department for everybody to be able to do their own thing without that fact breaking the game.

Edited by Chickeninja
Not "pounces" through objects but "tackles". Reason? Lack of sleep. Ok?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/16/2018 at 8:13 AM, Survivor said:

I just want to say that regardless of how long you've played, you have no more right to an opinion about the game as someone who has played it for 10 minutes.

That is objectively wrong, on so many levels at that. If you truly believe this, it's quite sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vallon said:

That is objectively wrong, on so many levels at that. If you truly believe this, it's quite sad.

By this reasoning, nobody can have an opinion regarding a game unless they are highly experienced. That would create a lot of sadness in your life man, e.g. reading the internet or this forum. All these inexperienced idiots having opinions, right? :lol: Also, there is enough evidence of highly experienced experts committing tremendous stupidities that beginners aren't even be able to conceive, precisely because their attachment to some current state-of-affairs keeps 'em from seeing the forest for the trees. See politics/dictatorships/idiots that are convinced that their experience somehow magically insulates them from being wrong for proof.

Now I have this image of Crane as some awesome boxer, punching hunters and zombies with elaborate combos, which IS consistent with survivor narratives in a zombie apocalypse setting. Perhaps more so than pimping the hunter/survivor to preside over high amounts of ever increasing resources with tweaked versions of what end up to be the same abilities over and over... calling it the best balancing ever, every couple of weeks, while alienating both beginners and experienced player base... that can't or don't want to invest the increasing time/effort it takes to be able to participate in the game without being a drag on possible team mates, let alone enjoy the thing. Boxing Crane seems fresher than all that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Chickeninja said:

...

What I assume he said, and what my post meant is that somebody with 10 minutes of playtime is in no way equal in constructive opinion worth about the game balance than somebody with 1000 hours, and yeah, if you deny this it's sad. I obviously didn't mean to say ''You can't say you like or dislike this without spending time''.

Edited by Vallon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone that plays a 1000 hours needs to think about something other than dying light. Like maybe work. You have picked toward almost every person that has put up a post. We paid for the game just like you. If someone isn't happy they have the right to say something because they paid for it. You already said what you think now let the devs read less bs and focus on the community not just one person that wants it their way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Deadeye195 said:

You have picked toward almost every person that has put up a post. We paid for the game just like you. If someone isn't happy they have the right to say something because they paid for it.

You mean just like how if I find something I don't agree with and think it's wrong, I can speak my mind about it as long as it's still on the topic at hand, which is the game's PvP balance? How about you grow a pair and try to not give life advice to a person you don't know anything about in a gaming forum, hmm?

Last post from me regarding anything outside of the topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Deadeye195 said:

Someone that plays a 1000 hours needs to think about something other than dying light. Like maybe work. You have picked toward almost every person that has put up a post. We paid for the game just like you. If someone isn't happy they have the right to say something because they paid for it. You already said what you think now let the devs read less bs and focus on the community not just one person that wants it their way.

There is nothing wrong in playing games daily as long as you keep balance in your life, games are good for practicing steel nerves, reflex, decision making, problem solving and so on.  Think about chess or playing an instruments, newbies are complaining about things being hard, but after spending for example 1000-2000 hours they are starting to realise that there are solutions to the "unsolvable" problems. Imagine guy playing piano for ten minutes and complaining about "too large" or "too heavy keys" and claiming that piano should be build differently so he doesnt have to learn about piano technique because it is too hard, requires too much intelligence and skill, he paid and bla bla bla. (Chickenninja i cant wait for you another marxist comment overturning all basic rules in life) For a guy who spent 1000 hours it will sound like a nonsense. People like Survivor are not used to one basic rule in life, to compete with other people you have to outsmart them, not change the rules so you can win without thought and skill. It is like complaining about gravity... it exists, deal with it,  you want jump 5 meters high on a plain ground. To overcome it you have to use your brain, attach spring to your legs or something, but you just dont want to do it, you just want to change the gravity lol Sorry for my nerdy comparisons. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may feel OT but it's not: There has been a general trend towards one specific kind of competitive play in PvP of the game which boxing Crane points towards: tactical play. This has eclipsed the strategic dimension almost entirely. I used to look forward to discovering how people approach PvP of the game. There were more styles which is why boxing Crane reminds me of this: nowadays almost all strategy is reduced to preparing for tactical confrontation, with chosen routes, best inventory choices, and play styles obeying this rule.

Any deviation and losing is more likely. And because "balancing" has focused much on cleaning up the tactical areas, everybody plays much more similar because tactics on their own are pure mechanism... once one has overcome the feeling of pride of being tricky and smart for commanding some combination with the right timing, it loses the "aha freshness gotcha" quality it used to have and can become boring, implying infinite repetition of the same routines. There's more imagination in boxing Crane's possibilities than a thousand games played for the same tactical tricks over and over. Even a million hours of experience won't make a difference because: same mechanisms.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Vallon said:

You mean just like how if I find something I don't agree with and think it's wrong, I can speak my mind about it as long as it's still on the topic at hand, which is the game's PvP balance? How about you grow a pair and try to not give life advice to a person you don't know anything about in a gaming forum, hmm?

Last post from me regarding anything outside of the topic.

So far you have said almost everyone's opinion is wrong. I never said don't give your opinion that's what they want you to do. Not get on here and tell them what you think of everyone else's. And as far as advice on living I have no clue what you are talking about. Don't bother responding because I don't care about your opinion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, EMtriX said:

There is nothing wrong in playing games daily as long as you keep balance in your life, games are good for practicing steel nerves, reflex, decision making, problem solving and so on.  Think about chess or playing an instruments, newbies are complaining about things being hard, but after spending for example 1000-2000 hours they are starting to realise that there are solutions to the "unsolvable" problems. Imagine guy playing piano for ten minutes and complaining about "too large" or "too heavy keys" and claiming that piano should be build differently so he doesnt have to learn about piano technique because it is too hard, requires too much intelligence and skill, he paid and bla bla bla. (Chickenninja i cant wait for you another marxist comment overturning all basic rules in life) For a guy who spent 1000 hours it will sound like a nonsense. People like Survivor are not used to one basic rule in life, to compete with other people you have to outsmart them, not change the rules so you can win without thought and skill. It is like complaining about gravity... it exists, deal with it,  you want jump 5 meters high on a plain ground. To overcome it you have to use your brain, attach spring to your legs or something, but you just dont want to do it, you just want to change the gravity lol Sorry for my nerdy comparisons. 

I get what you're saying. But didn't they change the gravity as you say to help the other side? Or the piano keys? I just want them to put some of it back. I have told everyone I didn't mind the change it did need to happen but just not that much that fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Deadeye195 said:

I get what you're saying. But didn't they change the gravity as you say to help the other side? Or the piano keys? I just want them to put some of it back. I have told everyone I didn't mind the change it did need to happen but just not that much that fast.

Gaming improving decision making and problem solving? That seems to only hold in the narrow sense of the game itself because it doesn’t appear to be as true as the gaming public would like to believe, i.e. you won’t learn how to smoothen social moves, drive better, perform surgery better, or make better decisions generally in the world by say becoming an experienced tactics specialist of Be the Zombie. I don’t see the evidence but since I don’t read everything, perhaps EM could enlighten us and point towards the science that establishes that.

Nerves of steel? Lol, with all these benefits from better decision making, to better problem solving, AND growing uber balls it sounds like we could substitute military training and education with playing Be the Zombie. It’s cheaper and we get the same or better results.

The problem with specialist arguments: just play a few more hundred or thousand hours and you’ll see what we mean. And that’s perfectly legitimate as far as opinions go, but falls flat when considering everyday facts: doing anything for a few hundred hours will make a person feel like they’re learning something, overcoming something, or conquering fear “practicing steel nerves”, training reflexes etc. But whether this is true for people's lives and in which sense they truly benefit? That seems much more unclear: how can you distinguish a time wasting activity from a bad game that keeps requiring you to spend more and more hours to "get it"?

You could say the same about any other game or activity, even unpleasant ones that aren't fun. What makes a quality game world class and distinguishes it imho, is that you don’t have to earn a degree and spend hundreds of hours to learn what normal play is like and people still feel empowered in their choices and excited to play. Good game implies that genuine fun can be had easily. Hundreds of hours means that this is a specialist’s game mode and that balance decisions are made to benefit the highest level of play, while the rest have to bite a learning curve harsher than the early players, that tell everybody to grow some, when that's always easy for us to say because we were around the longest.

And in the case of Starcraft etc. this is fine but Techland’s position remains clear regarding the question: Is the game mode only for PvP specialists (that have the freedom to play for hours daily) or is it for the general public to enjoy casually? And the balancing updates have swung BOTH ways, which nourishes false expectations that try to please everybody with neither specialists or beginners satisfied. Techland has repeatedly stated that they want to cater both to veterans’ as well as to casual expectations. But who knows what route they'll take in the end?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good morning/afternoon/evening

I represent a Dying Light Xbox One exclusive Facebook page with over 7000 members who are extremely upset with the update to the Be the Zombie! Many of them have already left the game due to the changes and i'm  sure many around the world and not just in my group have done the same! I have heard that it is near impossible to find players will to join Invasions after their update!

While we all agree that the Night Hunter was a tad underpowered and needed the new buffs in order to compete with the Humans(Surviors), what was not appropriate in the eyes of many I have spoken with not only in my group but in numerous groups on Facebook and other social media sites, was taking away or increasing cooldown times for certain Human attributes! I am attaching what they see as not fair and feel if just the Humans were given back the abilities prior to the update(without taking away the buffs for the Hunter), they would be satisfied and return to the game! As an Admin and Manager, I don't see this going well for the game as a whole since I'm sure 60-70% of the players play BTZ and if u lose them to other games, u will also lose reg players as well! My member activity has gone down drastically (not the point)! The point is if these are not remedied soon, I don't see how the game will be seen in the same light! You listened to the Hunters but not the Humans when it came to Hunters using glitches and cheats to win or just aborting if things weren't going their way! But instead of truly balancing the mode, u sent it in the other direction! While I and my group may be a drop in the bucket of ur players, imagine other groups as large or larger than mine walking out of the BTZ! Please consider at least giving back what u took from the Humans while leaving the perks/buffs you gave the Hunters! 

Thanks for your time and consideration!

Christine aka GamerMom1969

 

 

 

IMG_7321.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Chickeninja said:

Gaming improving decision making and problem solving? That seems to only hold in the narrow sense of the game itself because it doesn’t appear to be as true as the gaming public would like to believe, i.e. you won’t learn how to smoothen social moves, drive better, perform surgery better, or make better decisions generally in the world by say becoming an experienced tactics specialist of Be the Zombie. I don’t see the evidence but since I don’t read everything, perhaps EM could enlighten us and point towards the science that establishes that.

Nerves of steel? Lol, with all these benefits from better decision making, to better problem solving, AND growing uber balls it sounds like we could substitute military training and education with playing Be the Zombie. It’s cheaper and we get the same or better results.

The problem with specialist arguments: just play a few more hundred or thousand hours and you’ll see what we mean. And that’s perfectly legitimate as far as opinions go, but falls flat when considering everyday facts: doing anything for a few hundred hours will make a person feel like they’re learning something, overcoming something, or conquering fear “practicing steel nerves”, training reflexes etc. But whether this is true for people's lives and in which sense they truly benefit? That seems much more unclear: how can you distinguish a time wasting activity from a bad game that keeps requiring you to spend more and more hours to "get it"?

You could say the same about any other game or activity, even unpleasant ones that aren't fun. What makes a quality game world class and distinguishes it imho, is that you don’t have to earn a degree and spend hundreds of hours to learn what normal play is like and people still feel empowered in their choices and excited to play. Good game implies that genuine fun can be had easily. Hundreds of hours means that this is a specialist’s game mode and that balance decisions are made to benefit the highest level of play, while the rest have to bite a learning curve harsher than the early players, that tell everybody to grow some, when that's always easy for us to say because we were around the longest.

And in the case of Starcraft etc. this is fine but Techland’s position remains clear regarding the question: Is the game mode only for PvP specialists (that have the freedom to play for hours daily) or is it for the general public to enjoy casually? And the balancing updates have swung BOTH ways, which nourishes false expectations that try to please everybody with neither specialists or beginners satisfied. Techland has repeatedly stated that they want to cater both to veterans’ as well as to casual expectations. But who knows what route they'll take in the end?

Thanks for not being rude like some people. I'm not a new player btw. I have about 700 hours as the hunter i have 1 apex and a mauler and about 600 hours as survivor and even I think that they made this new update to much. Used to the hunter had to fight. Now most matches I play they spit and run. Letting the flying hordes do the rest. Or I try to jump on their head and land literally on top of them and not get the DFA but instead die right in their laps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/16/2018 at 0:13 AM, Survivor said:

I just want to say that regardless of who you are/how long you've played, you have no more right to an opinion about the game as someone who has played it for 10 minutes. About you saying I'm a "random player", neither of us have to prove anything, but I've beaten most, if not all the top tier PS4 hunter players... with just my fists. I've been playing the game since launch and shortly after its release is when I started to use just my fists. So before you de-mind me because of my loadout - or lack thereof - remind yourself that this is a video game which has had thousands of players, all at different skills and all with their own styles. If there was only one way to play any game, nobody would play video games because they would be stale and boring. I sincerely hope you can have an open mind about that and trust me when I say that I am a great player - using only fists. I appreciate your advice about playing, however I'm aware of all this and it needn't be said. We're all just here to have some fun but I feel as if there is no fun in being blatantly overpowered. As I've said a couple times now, my suggestions are not all meant to be implemented at once. Yes, I feel a couple are necessary, but for even one of the others to be added, that would just be a bonus.

as for the exploits I've spoken of, there's many. To name a few; tackling and pounces through objects, making them impossible to evade. Landing behind a survivor with tendrils to tackle them instantly from the back without the ability to be evaded. The ability to charge up a ground pound while using tendrils. Being able to tackle a survivor from a higher surface, glitching out the screen of the survivor and confusing them. Pouncing a survivor from close range to have the "flash radius" of the hunter be moved to a random location somewhere around the survivor, making it impossible to evade. Being able to tackle while running perpendicular to a survivor, making the hunters animation glitch out, having him not even be facing you, hitting you with the side of his body

These are most, but certainly not all the exploits/glitches alike that I see every time I'm playing a higher ranked hunter. Excuse me if some of them are intended, but if that's the case, they should be worked on to smooth them out, so it's not so rigid and broken looking. 

since this has become a pissing contest at this point, i have 2 accounts(ps4), both 60+ hrs, apex, mostly undefeated. i've never heard of a player running around using his fists. if you are an ultimate surv and have played as often as you say you do, i think i would remember a player running around with his fists...

you list many exploits for the hunter, yet fail to list some for the human. for instance, the grapple cancel, literally infinite items, poison bolt(thanks for the patch, but still somewhat used with pros and spammers, dropkick lock, etc etc. you complain about these tackles, but most of them are counterable. it feels like the only way to tackle a true pro of dying light is if the surv is blatantly not paying attention or cant possibly evade (in mid air). most of the time about 90% of my tackles are evaded with a true pro. you unconsciously depicted yourself as a pro saying you've been against nearly every zombie, so how about you start acting like one and try to improve instead of complain.

p.s., humans can still evade tackles through buildings, and some pros even bait the zombie out by waiting below a van or something alike. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/19/2018 at 2:07 PM, Deadeye195 said:

So far you have said almost everyone's opinion is wrong. I never said don't give your opinion that's what they want you to do. Not get on here and tell them what you think of everyone else's. And as far as advice on living I have no clue what you are talking about. Don't bother responding because I don't care about your opinion. 

............

i feel like vallon is one of the only sane people here. you dont care about his opinion but yet you respond to him? 

vallon decided that people were being unrealistic about the update. the update was good, but it needs tweaking. he gave people his opinion and instead of people acting like a person and taking it in stride they decided the most mature thing was to huff and puff and type away at their keyboard saying 'i dont care about your opinion.' 

think before you type please

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, lemonlover996 said:

............

i feel like vallon is one of the only sane people here. you dont care about his opinion but yet you respond to him? 

vallon decided that people were being unrealistic about the update. the update was good, but it needs tweaking. he gave people his opinion and instead of people acting like a person and taking it in stride they decided the most mature thing was to huff and puff and type away at their keyboard saying 'i dont care about your opinion.' 

think before you type please

You should try the same. The people where asked to give the devs their opinion. Not get on here and say what other people are saying is stupid. After seeing everyone criticized by one person that is just another gamer like us I got tired of it. And yes I did say I didn't care about his opinion  (his opinion about our opinions). It is the devs job to pick what they do or don't like about what we say. And with the change alot of people thought it did need change just not as much as they did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The best way to balance the be the zombie out is make them use lives also. Because killing the spawns and trying to kill night hunter is hard alone. If the night hunter had to use a spawn to revive from death would make it better and more of fair play. Unless you make it a time challenge and humans have infinite lives too. I have not seen any balance to it yet. Even people with a maxed out legend people are scared to fight night hunter. I love just fighting the night hunter. The best way to balance it a different way if to give a sec9nd obje tive and to kill the night hunter instead so if your focused on killing it the the spawns you don' kill revives a volatile hive in the game. Another balance is to make the uv light infinite and make a blueprint for different types of ammo. Like fire electric and etc. Also you should take less damage in your car from the night hunter. Besides uv light the Hunter should have a other weakness to elemental damage. Because there is no balance, it' like we are a dumb captan America facing a God we can' really beat. We don' have no shield or anything good to really protect us. I would like you dev to host a twitch stream with your fans and listen to what people say. Because this game can and could be very very huge. I really love this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Ratackle said:

It's not about platform. It's about the game

These particular changes brought me back into the game and to playing the survivor of course, due to almost every hunter being extremely meh since very rarely do I see any veteran playing anymore.

And the best part is that when you see a bolter attempting to invade you for the 10th time in a row you just say f*ck it and completely demolish him to teach him what it means to fight against the wrong people.

And by console I mean, that everything is ten times harder on that platform, the screen also looks like Crane is wearing some horse tacks.

Edited by WebbedSun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People need to understand this update has been about adapting, notice how in the matchmaking there are fewer survivors? Because the ones who couldn't adapt left, as for me my human has never been stronger, this update made my human skills increase dramatically

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So when is the spit regen in team games getting nerfed? I get that you need feedback and can't act on impulse, but literally every single player, including Hunter-only players, agrees that they need a serious tone down. A minimum of 45 spits per match and going as far as 60+ is insane.

While it can be quite fun surviving against nigh-impossible odds, it does not make it an equal playing field when it comes to skill. Before the update, when a skilled Hunter entered a team game of maybe slightly above-average players, he still had a sizeable chance of losing because Survivors had a better/easier/more exploitable kit. Now it's the opposite - a low-skilled Hunter can definitely take down an individually better team, just by knowing how to spam spits, spam UV heal and retreat if nothing hits.

Witnessing that kind of play is, quite frankly, ugly. It's like I'm watching DFA crows and DK waiters in a Hunter version. Just like how that was a problem that was thankfully removed, this incessant spam of spits needs to go too.

I don't really understand how hard it could be to change a few numeric values, but I'm not the dev here. It would be great if we could at least get a response that some kind of tweak down is coming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now