James Gallagher

Be The Zombie Balancing Update - 12/1/2018

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1 hour ago, Deadeye195 said:

I couldn't land anything unless I looked straight at him and landed dead on him. If you are not precise you will miss and die instantly. They have giving the hunter toy many instant deaths and took away the only instant death we have. I played as the hunter last night. Because playing the other side sucks now. Me and a friend played for 30 mins and it gave me over 60 spits. That is just stupid. He stood no chance.

Even if i land right on top of the hunter, and i mean dead center, ill miss because all the hunter has to do is take a step forward and you will miss which is bull chupacabra. As for 60 spits in 30 minutes, thats nothing. Me and a few friends played a hunter that let out 76 spits in 20 minutes.

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Same as survivor all you have to do is to dodge the spit so its preaty equal, today i played with some random dude as survivors and we won like 5,6 time in a row against some juggernauts baiter and carnivores the only time i took some spits was only when i was cornered or something like that and they were all spiting, sure they are going to spit all rhe time thats their job but you just have to dodge as he have to dodge the DFA. 

The problem is not if he spit 100 times in a match the problem is if you let him touch you 100 times. 

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We aren't complaining about the spit explosion delay and reach buff. We arent happy about the cool down buff. A hunter shouldn't be shooting 70 spits in 20 minutes, 1v1 or 4v1. What we really aren't happy about is hunters constantly abusing horde spits because of the teleporting bomber bug giving them cheap and easy kills. What we fail to understand is why they took away our way of easily killing the hunter in 1 hit, but gave the hunter many more ways to easily 1 hit the humans, whether it be spamming spits and hoping for a uv suppress to hit for a pounce, or landing a horde spit and hoping a bomber will magically kill the human on a rooftop or mid air. The hunter has infinite lives, and can easily get back into the fight in less then 10 seconds after dying, and really isn't punished for being killed. Whereas humans die easily now, and the whole point of the human role is not to die.

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I could manage with the spit capabilities they have now but I think they should at least give back some if the grab distance for DFA.  Not the height distance. I don't think it was fair doing short jumps for a DFA but the grab distance was fine before. 

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I know that sometime they spawn on the roof i got my self killed sometime this way but hey what can i do, i mean they spawn randomly sometime they will spawn 10m away sometime in front of you thats rhe game, everytime i get hit by horde spit i always look my radar because you can see them on the minimap, and sometime i get killed even if im not touch by the spit thats because the other player got hit and i was somewhere in that area where they started spawning and got killed, so even if its not you you gotta be careful the good thing about that is that you can automaticly see if one of your buddy got hit by the spit (uv or horde) by the icon on their name so you can go to help him if its UV spit (saved many lives that way and got saved) or if its horde spit you can go somewhere higher. And lets be honest if they were only spawning on the streets that skill would be 100% useless in slums or old town and if they change the radius of the horde spawning area it would be even more useless.

So the question is what is the area radius spawning of the horde because its based on the player who got hit by the spit and they will start spawning around him but if you are inside that radius you may be in danger too (if it works that way)!?

On the other side for DFA i was watching some videos from before it was way to easy to kill the hunter that way basicly you just dodge his tackle and you perform an easy DFA on him. 

Ps: The hunter is punished bbecause generalky if you kill him you got one of his nests or at least you have free time to run to them

Edited by NikoTosic

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3 hours ago, NikoTosic said:

Ps: The hunter is punished bbecause generalky if you kill him you got one of his nests or at least you have free time to run to them

The hunter doesnt get punished at all because he can get back in the fight in less then 10 seconds. In that time the player would have maybe 2-3 spawns killed in the nest if your playing with 2-3 other people. If playing alone you might not even be able to kill a spawn before the hunter can get back.

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On 1/25/2018 at 8:05 AM, Hank J. Wimbleton said:

Some things I agree with you with, some I don't.

It is human instinct to win as that is pretty much the point of any objective based gamemode. So dirty tricks or tactics that are common should be expect and be played around. I'll be honest when this update was up I was happy as its not a curbstomp when a Hunter is a fighting a Human and loses, yet as time went on we then realized how strong of an update this was towards Hunter. It is very unbalanced. Spits are too easy to uses for low skilled players, and the high skilled players know how to abuse them to the point where you can barely do anything about it. The only way to pretty much be a Hunter is playing in a 2v1 so that the effects of 3v1 and 4v1 are not there. 1v1 is a mess because if you're hit by UV Spit its pretty much a guaranteed death with no way to counter. 3v1 and 4v1 is just way to chaotic as they are spits left and right with barely any safe openings to even engage the Hunter, and on top of the fact that he regenerates spits and shield like no tomorrow makes it even more difficult cause he can just heal back up, run away, or lock you place with the animation of pouncing, or tackle.

There is a reason spits have only two charges (depending on which you use), these things are very dangerous as losing you UV Light, or having insta kill bombers appear from the from the map, from the ground, or even goddamn, unfairly teleport to you. These spits before were hard to aim, and I'll admit it was rather disappointing to see a new player miss 24/7 and not learn how to aim, or use them; but with the auto-balance mechanic and with this update it makes it that something that is this dangerous is now easy to use for all skill levels of players. We might as well go back to spamming flares again for this kind of chupacabra.

The Shield still does work, but its just bad to use in general. It leaves you open for tackles, GPs, and pounces since the shield can't block them; even if someone manages to block the spit they have to wait out its animation which leaves you unable to do anything (i.e. switch weapons, equipment, move around, etc).

Some people are don't have that much experience, and are of course whining, but there are others here who have spent the time and effort into this game which we enjoy, and put our opinions not for whining, but to help make this game balance overall. Stats are also important because it allows us to see many variables with this game. Unfortunately we have no way to see who does what with anything, only Techland knows.

I think this video helps alot with this stuff, and it is a different game, but the same concept should apply:

 

Agree with majority of what your saying. The kinds of solutions in that video are indeed closer to the kind of response you'd expect from most developers. It could also be last hurrah time, where it'd be interesting to see how many folks keep playing if developers totally mess with settings and user preferences.

As a developer you'd be able to measure how much or how little you have to listen to community feedback; e.g. whether you have to listen to all that noise at all, to keep folks in active online play. If you discover that folks keep playing regardless of the tweaks made patching, then the need for community and its feedback looses meaning because you could just pretend to listen and save more money on testing, gathering online feedback, and patching. Veterans get sick of the thing, and there will always be the new hot shots more than willing to swing their uhm... police batons around proclaiming to be the best, with new profiles, fresh names, offering to teach others, and be founding members of the next wave of groups.

A way that would balance the thing is have hunters search for yellow, violet, orange, and green crayons in police vans to farm for their spits. Last I heard - omg hold on to your seats ladies and gentlemen - every hunter dupes their spits automatically with help from the developers in every game! Then I'd be less annoyed for example at teleporting bombers on high platforms, as I'd know that the hunter had to search seven police vans with angry veterans roaming the map and complaining about balance for that magical yellow bomber spit crayon (just two per backpack- then find a vendor lol) after finding six silent sacrificial short swords. :D I kid of course: I wouldn't wish that kind of reward system on anybody.

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On 1/28/2018 at 5:20 PM, Chickeninja said:

Veterans get sick of the thing, and there will always be the new hot shots more than willing to swing their uhm... police batons around proclaiming to be the best, with new profiles, fresh names, offering to teach others, and be founding members of the next wave of groups.

perfect explanation of what's happening here. the update, which many of you proclaim to be the end of the world, is actually quite balanced. now, you can't please everybody. sure, you can appease the general audience but there is always going to be that one heckler in the back that just has to get his opinion out. maybe, instead of whining in the forums about how 'i lost fifty games,' perhaps change your playstyle? instead of running around with a machete, how about an axe instead and use the untouched grapple cancel combo on the hunter? or maybe, take advantage of the broken hitbox for the hunter and do jump-swipes with a one handed and wear down the hunter?

at least try to change the way you play. that was the whole purpose of this update.

i was also slightly amused when i saw all the 'unbalanced' messages. you survivors yearn for balance, but yet  you have infinite medkits, flares, positions, poison bolt, etc. if a human wishes to use everything that their kit has to offer, then they could very likely win. 

haven't i told you the definition of insanity? how about using some basic problem solving skills to solve the issue at hand instead of throwing a hissy fit. honestly, you guys should be thankful that the dev's at least managed to update the game. 

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My style is fine and this thread is to tell what we think of the update. Fyi I don't use just a machete. I use everything. I don't play all the time like you guys. I can only a few hours a week. And those few hours suck now. I have switched back to the zombie side. And I'm lucky if 1 out of 15 matches the survivor doesn't drop out. And it's because I can overwhelm them with hordes and if spits while seeing every move they make. But if you say this is balanced that's your opinion. Don't bash others and just state your peace.

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After playing the new patch over the past few weeks and comparing it to the meta before patch, I believe this update was very much needed. 

 

The Night Hunter was a pushover pre-patch and now it actually gives a challenge to the survivors(Which I am sure is why a lot of people dislike this patch) . DFA campers and monkeys are still running around but it isn't as common anymore. DFA was a huge issue before when people could camp, and just animation lock the Hunter so they couldn't block it. Just like a successful pounce, dfa requires a level of skill now, not just blind luck.

 

On the human side of things, it is much more fun for me. The gameplay actually gives me a challenge and I feel more accomplished whenever I can pull off a dfa or other good kill. The new patch also brings the viability of other items up, such as the Shield. With spits being as good as they are now, it is really useful since spitting + animation locking to guarantee a spit hit is more prevalent now than ever. 

 

This patch just needs a little bit of fine tuning and it will be great in my opinion. 

 

As others have stated, the spit regeneration time needs to be nerfed. I'd suggest the following times;

•1v1: 60 Seconds

•2v1: 50 Seconds

•3v1: 40 Seconds

•4v1: 30 Seconds

 

The only other issue I have with the patch is the one flare in 2v1 and higher. 3v1 and 4v1 is fine with one flare. However, I feel as if 2v1 needs a second flare or the flare times need to be increased in 2v1 or decrease UV Spit durstion in 2v1. Currently you are heavily reliant on a teammate in 2v1. So if they die and then they take at least 8 seconds to respawn (unless you are down by quite a bit), you are pretty much dead if you get UV Suppressed. The Hunter can literally just wait out the flare since you only have one and the UV Suppressant lasts longer than a Zaid Flare, so it is a free kill for the Hunter kf they just spit lock you.

 

For the 2v1 Flare Issue I'd recommend this;

•Change the consumption rate to 0.99 instead of 1.0 so you have access to two flares but you have to wait quite a while if you want to avoid the cooldown timer on flares.   

 

Overall, this was a great patch. (: 

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2 hours ago, Vertigo said:

The Night Hunter was a pushover pre-patch and now it actually gives a challenge to the survivors(Which I am sure is why a lot of people dislike this patch) .

Ouch. 

Well, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking for a nicer way to say exactly this. With this update, it's surprisingly easy to separate the ''unbalanced'' from the ''get better and deal with it'' stuff. I've already written this, but here're the unbalanced parts that have to be addressed:

1. Spit regen time in 3v1s and 4v1s needs a tone down

2. Flare cooldown in 3v1s and 4v1s needs to be decreased, an additional flare for a greater cooldown would be a good alternative as well

3. UV light range in 3v1s and 4v1s needs a slight increase

Everything else - increased spit range, reduced explosion time, DFA changes, new damage reduction is fine, manageable and definitely much needed. Because of that, a lot of the Survivors' kit - which was basically animation locks, one-shots and all sorts of spam - has reduced effectiveness now, and as much as the posters here hate to admit it, probably most, if not all who are largely dissatisfied with the update, were more or less dependent on that kind of playstyle. Hell, the 4-5 teams I invaded in the past days still tried to pull the same chupacabra as pre-update - I do a GP on one guy, I hear his teammate immediately grapple up like 2 meters and try to DFA me while I'm defenseless, only to plop on the ground and fail. So now that that easy way to PvP is largely gone, it's probably like they're playing a new game, and they don't like not having an easy way to play.

Had a lot of 1v1s as Survivor these past few days, the game just couldn't feel better. I was playing way better than I was pre-update, even though my side is technically weaker than it was. I'm basically getting better as a byproduct of the higher skill cap introduced with this update, which is... exactly what an ideal PvP should be - get better to overcome greater challenges.

 

EDIT: Hah, really... ''сrap'' is censored? Okay then.

Edited by Vallon

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2 hours ago, Vertigo said:

After playing the new patch over the past few weeks and comparing it to the meta before patch, I believe this update was very much needed.

That’s just it though: you needed a few weeks of intensive play to arrive at that conclusion. That doesn’t mean the update was good. It just means you got used to it.  

2 hours ago, Vertigo said:

The Night Hunter was a pushover pre-patch and now it actually gives a challenge to the survivors(Which I am sure is why a lot of people dislike this patch) . DFA campers and monkeys are still running around but it isn't as common anymore. DFA was a huge issue before when people could camp, and just animation lock the Hunter so they couldn't block it. Just like a successful pounce, dfa requires a level of skill now, not just blind luck.

A successful pounce requires a level of true skill? Post update I observed a higher number of undeserved gotcha pounces by my hunter. Also tactically, you’re describing a scenario where the hunter takes the bait and complaining that they get punished for it.

As for the survivor types milking this tactic: There are other, more measured ways to discourage camping from giving folks an edge strategically. Note that camping itself is a symptom of poor game design: folks feel they don’t have options with which to engage hunters, so they camp.

Equally important to all the balancing arguments is that the game is fun to play. And drop attack was one of the most fun mechanisms for a reason: survivor makes a sound prediction about hunter’s heading and position and is rewarded with insta kill. To me it doesn’t matter if this happens from the height of a cardboard box: if the hunter’s moves are that transparent, then sparing them those kills won’t make a difference.

The fact that so much emphasis is placed on the necessary learning curves for survivors, while there is zero discussion on the merits of challenges/learning curves for hunters is revealing. I’ll point out the obvious again: This kind of reasoning pretends to value balance while really seeking overpowered hunters (For everybody howling “You seek an overpowered survivor”; see my previous posts, I’ve been defending what I interpret to be appropriate buffs and nerfs on both sides well before stuck spits could be negated by survivor shield use, which needed to be reigned in for example).

With the latest update, the following scenario is common: a hunter picking a predictable route and the survivor’s drop attack just being off by the width of a hair results in the same kind of game play: inaccuracy of hunter rewarded and survivor nerf is equivalent to removing drop attack as an option for survivors, given that survivors feel only a fraction of their attacks to be effective when compared to before the update. Double standard. The net effect over time is that folks will stop trying to use what is arguably one of the funnest survivor mechanisms of the game.

2 hours ago, Vertigo said:

This patch just needs a little bit of fine tuning and it will be great in my opinion.

Indeed, if great = leaving survivors in many situations without viable options, then indeed they've "Made Dying Light great again". But as you've noted, it took a couple of weeks for that greatness to sink in, which indicates the kind of change that makes the game harder to learn and less fun to play; and while EXACTLY THIS may be the kind of fun appropriate to competitive play styles and huge frequencies/hours sunk into the game, I'll go out on a limb here and say that the vast majority of folks seek a good time online and are neither interested nor impressed by the kinds of play styles that seek some warped sense of skill only to lord it over others online.

15 minutes ago, Vallon said:

Well, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking for a nicer way to say exactly this. With this update, it's surprisingly easy to separate the ''unbalanced'' from the ''get better and deal with it'' stuff.

Ok, then share with us the exact criteria to make the distinction between imbalanced, poorly designed games, and the kind of game play situations that require "get better and deal with it". I believe that's a personal thing and that people should not play games that aren't fun. By valuing challenge in itself, I should play infinite games against supercomputers that I can't win because it would be more challenging. And by the same measure, if humans are overpowered then hunters should enjoy the challenge of winning 1 game in a thousand against weaker playing survivors.

"C'mon you whiners, where's you're sense of adventure?" works both ways but is also an admission that the game's quality is so poor, you need hundreds of hours to realize it. Therefore, bad patch for the community as a whole, even if excellent patch for us.

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1 hour ago, Chickeninja said:

A successful pounce requires a level of true skill? Post update I observed a higher number of undeserved gotcha pounces by my hunter. Also tactically, you’re describing a scenario where the hunter takes the bait and complaining that they get punished for it.

Yes. It does take skill. With this update DFA requires more planning, timing and setup. When you outplay the hunter you get rewarded with an instant kill for outplaying them. 

 

Pounce works the same way. All it takes is literally a tap of the UV light to block a pounce so when a hunter can get a successful pounce, they typically have outplayed a player or group, therefore they have been rewarded with an instant kill. 

 

If a survivor doesn't dodge a tackle and another human gets stunned because of it and then pounced, they have been outplayed and in return they lose a life. 

 

If a survivor dodges a tackle on a roof and then rains death, they have outplayed the hunter and have been rewarded for it. 

 

So yes, they both do require a level of skill and that is what makes it good. 

What is not fair is when players can just sit on a van and wait for a hunter to miss a tackle and then animation lock the night hunter and rain death. 

 

Also the Night Hunter is supposed to be a feared mutation. Not just something humans can pushover with ease. So yes, BTZ being a challenge is a good thing. It requires higher skill now and people will adapt and improve their gameplay. It is fitting for the Night Hunter to be challening, and it gives a much higher level of satisfaction if you come out on top. 

 

"And by the same measure, if humans are overpowered then hunters should enjoy the challenge of winning 1 game in a thousand against weaker playing survivors."

 

it is not fun losing that much. If it were like that, no one would play due to frustration, and if you haven't seen it yet, a lot of players have quit playing. Neither side should have a major advantage over one another. As I said before, I stick by what I stated should be fine tuned so it is more balanced. The current patch doesn't make hunter undefeatable. I have played several apex predators over the weeks and won just fine with varying amounts of players. Even flawlessed a few the past couple of days. 

 

As it stands right now, I believe the game is much better than it was and it will be much more balanced if they just fine tune this to fix a few issues. 

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2 hours ago, Vallon said:

3. UV light range in 3v1s and 4v1s needs a slight increase

 

I second this. 0.02 or 0.03 increase would be sufficient for those modes. 

 

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about cooldowns in 4v1 and 3v1 though since you typically have a team to help cover you. However, I think 2 flares in 1v1 would be better with the values I posted earlier. 

Cooldown for using flares should be on par with the regen times of spits though if they do decide to decrease the cooldowns. 

For example if a UV Spit takes 20 seconds to regen, then flare should take about 20 seconds to regen or slightly shorter than 20 seconds. 

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1 hour ago, Chickeninja said:

That’s just it though: you needed a few weeks of intensive play to arrive at that conclusion. That doesn’t mean the update was good. It just means you got used to it.  

A successful pounce requires a level of true skill? Post update I observed a higher number of undeserved gotcha pounces by my hunter. Also tactically, you’re describing a scenario where the hunter takes the bait and complaining that they get punished for it.

As for the survivor types milking this tactic: There are other, more measured ways to discourage camping from giving folks an edge strategically. Note that camping itself is a symptom of poor game design: folks feel they don’t have options with which to engage hunters, so they camp.

Equally important to all the balancing arguments is that the game is fun to play. And drop attack was one of the most fun mechanisms for a reason: survivor makes a sound prediction about hunter’s heading and position and is rewarded with insta kill. To me it doesn’t matter if this happens from the height of a cardboard box: if the hunter’s moves are that transparent, then sparing them those kills won’t make a difference.

The fact that so much emphasis is placed on the necessary learning curves for survivors, while there is zero discussion on the merits of challenges/learning curves for hunters is revealing. I’ll point out the obvious again: This kind of reasoning pretends to value balance while really seeking overpowered hunters (For everybody howling “You seek an overpowered survivor”; see my previous posts, I’ve been defending what I interpret to be appropriate buffs and nerfs on both sides well before stuck spits could be negated by survivor shield use, which needed to be reigned in for example).

With the latest update, the following scenario is common: a hunter picking a predictable route and the survivor’s drop attack just being off by the width of a hair results in the same kind of game play: inaccuracy of hunter rewarded and survivor nerf is equivalent to removing drop attack as an option for survivors, given that survivors feel only a fraction of their attacks to be effective when compared to before the update. Double standard. The net effect over time is that folks will stop trying to use what is arguably one of the funnest survivor mechanisms of the game.

Indeed, if great = leaving survivors in many situations without viable options, then indeed they've "Made Dying Light great again". But as you've noted, it took a couple of weeks for that greatness to sink in, which indicates the kind of change that makes the game harder to learn and less fun to play; and while EXACTLY THIS may be the kind of fun appropriate to competitive play styles and huge frequencies/hours sunk into the game, I'll go out on a limb here and say that the vast majority of folks seek a good time online and are neither interested nor impressed by the kinds of play styles that seek some warped sense of skill only to lord it over others online.

Ok, then share with us the exact criteria to make the distinction between imbalanced, poorly designed games, and the kind of game play situations that require "get better and deal with it". I believe that's a personal thing and that people should not play games that aren't fun. By valuing challenge in itself, I should play infinite games against supercomputers that I can't win because it would be more challenging. And by the same measure, if humans are overpowered then hunters should enjoy the challenge of winning 1 game in a thousand against weaker playing survivors.

"C'mon you whiners, where's you're sense of adventure?" works both ways but is also an admission that the game's quality is so poor, you need hundreds of hours to realize it. Therefore, bad patch for the community as a whole, even if excellent patch for us.

1 hour ago, Chickeninja said:

That’s just it though: you needed a few weeks of intensive play to arrive at that conclusion. That doesn’t mean the update was good. It just means you got used to it.  

A successful pounce requires a level of true skill? Post update I observed a higher number of undeserved gotcha pounces by my hunter. Also tactically, you’re describing a scenario where the hunter takes the bait and complaining that they get punished for it.

As for the survivor types milking this tactic: There are other, more measured ways to discourage camping from giving folks an edge strategically. Note that camping itself is a symptom of poor game design: folks feel they don’t have options with which to engage hunters, so they camp.

Equally important to all the balancing arguments is that the game is fun to play. And drop attack was one of the most fun mechanisms for a reason: survivor makes a sound prediction about hunter’s heading and position and is rewarded with insta kill. To me it doesn’t matter if this happens from the height of a cardboard box: if the hunter’s moves are that transparent, then sparing them those kills won’t make a difference.

The fact that so much emphasis is placed on the necessary learning curves for survivors, while there is zero discussion on the merits of challenges/learning curves for hunters is revealing. I’ll point out the obvious again: This kind of reasoning pretends to value balance while really seeking overpowered hunters (For everybody howling “You seek an overpowered survivor”; see my previous posts, I’ve been defending what I interpret to be appropriate buffs and nerfs on both sides well before stuck spits could be negated by survivor shield use, which needed to be reigned in for example).

With the latest update, the following scenario is common: a hunter picking a predictable route and the survivor’s drop attack just being off by the width of a hair results in the same kind of game play: inaccuracy of hunter rewarded and survivor nerf is equivalent to removing drop attack as an option for survivors, given that survivors feel only a fraction of their attacks to be effective when compared to before the update. Double standard. The net effect over time is that folks will stop trying to use what is arguably one of the funnest survivor mechanisms of the game.

Indeed, if great = leaving survivors in many situations without viable options, then indeed they've "Made Dying Light great again". But as you've noted, it took a couple of weeks for that greatness to sink in, which indicates the kind of change that makes the game harder to learn and less fun to play; and while EXACTLY THIS may be the kind of fun appropriate to competitive play styles and huge frequencies/hours sunk into the game, I'll go out on a limb here and say that the vast majority of folks seek a good time online and are neither interested nor impressed by the kinds of play styles that seek some warped sense of skill only to lord it over others online.

Ok, then share with us the exact criteria to make the distinction between imbalanced, poorly designed games, and the kind of game play situations that require "get better and deal with it". I believe that's a personal thing and that people should not play games that aren't fun. By valuing challenge in itself, I should play infinite games against supercomputers that I can't win because it would be more challenging. And by the same measure, if humans are overpowered then hunters should enjoy the challenge of winning 1 game in a thousand against weaker playing survivors.

"C'mon you whiners, where's you're sense of adventure?" works both ways but is also an admission that the game's quality is so poor, you need hundreds of hours to realize it. Therefore, bad patch for the community as a whole, even if excellent patch for us.

you are describing a lot of specific scenarios for these. it seems you've yet to understand the true power of a dfa spammer. 

i agree with you, rewarding a hunter for missing a ground pound is ridiculous. but, if you've gone up against a duostack, one at nest, one at a building, i found it impossible to enjoy that. getting dfa was probably the biggest cheese of btz mode. i can take a couple, yeah, but when some guy does it over and over again, i find myself not enjoying btz mode. 

personally, i love the new update. of course, my opinion is biased since i have many hours as hunter, but next to none as human. but look at it like this; i play dying light for fun. its not very competitive, and half the community is a bunch of tweens and teens anyways, so virtually no point in playing competitively. i do, however, like to win. of course, i know sportsmanship and you cant win them all but going on a losing streak because some guy held one button and hopped off a building is nothing short of aggravating. i also understand that people favor the human over the hunter. but was it truly fun being able to insta kill a hunter over and over again?

you stated that the reason people camp is because of poor game design. sure, there are some kinks in dying light but most of them have been ironed out and even the stuff that still exists isnt that terribly game breaking(besides duping, but that is so commonplace by now hardly anyone cares). anyways, people dont camp because of bad game design. look at other games, for example planetside 2, basically any battlefield or cod game, hell, any game with a player vs player mode. camping will always exist for this reason; it's easy. it is ridiculously easy to sit on top of a building, jump off of it and fall ontop of a hunter and get a kill. the people who camp do it because why should they have to try hard at something when you can just take the easy way? a good sense of morals very rarely exists in video games, since people can be a different person online. dont hate the game, hate the player. also, video game designers try to punish campers by having the afk timer put on, like in overwatch.

 judging by the essay you have typed out, im gonna go out on a limb here and say that you were mainly a survivor player. thats fine, but you have to understand that your opinion is very biased. 

"And by the same measure, if humans are overpowered then hunters should enjoy the challenge of winning 1 game in a thousand against weaker playing survivors."

man, i hope you were high off something when you were typing this, because if you have failed to see the pure idiocy and hypocrisy in this statement then i wonder how you function as a human being. excuse my coarseness, but man where is your decorum at? developers giving players a mountain to climb is definitely necessary, but the mountain you describe has fire rivers flowing down the side, angry ninja's constantly trying to kill you, and is a couple thousand feet tall. now, a sane person would walk away from this mountain. if there was only a .01 chance to win a game, then who in their right mind would play it? people play btz to win and triumph over the opposer, just like any other pvp game. 

obviously, this update isnt perfect. i booted up the human mode and played one game and the hunter i was going against kept on animation locking me when he didnt stick a spit. other than that fact, the match was perfectly enjoyable. the hunter was actually somewhat competent and felt enjoyable to play against, and i had to play smarter. usually when i play surv i just copy moves that are used against me, but those moves no longer work, and so using basic problem solving skills i managed to deduce that i could use other tactics, like shotgunning the hunter pointblank (which surprisingly drains a fair amount of health ) and then dropkicking the hunter away, which led to the hunter escaping with 50-80 health left. or, using the rain death ability with a smack hammer ( i completely forgot what the ability was called, but its where you slam down the two handed into the ground and it has an aoe effect) to drain most of the hunter's health. there are a more than fair amount of tactics/abilities that have been left untouched by this update. only the most abused (even then, dropkicking and grapple animation cancel have been left untouched) tactics have been nerfed, but you can still use them. be happy that it wasnt blizzard updating this game and that you can at least still use some of these tactics. 

wrapping up my rather long rant, i guess you should at least try to play differently. step out of your comfort zone a bit, try something new for a change. 

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1 hour ago, Vertigo said:

Also the Night Hunter is supposed to be a feared mutation. Not just something humans can pushover with ease.

You sound like Hulk here. Puny humans...fear me...roar!!!!!!!!! :lol: Nobody wants easy pushovers and yet nobody wants impossible or overly tedious learning curves. I can agree with that.

Regardless of sides: to call the update great while having pages of fine tuning, with both veterans and beginners quitting, shooting up all over the net?

Either the update made Dying Light great again, which wouldn't require 3 weeks of community tweaking things like the UV ranges above, or the update was not optimal. The community being so generous with their knowledge, knowing full well that they are providing Techland a free testing service is perhaps the most optimal thing about the game, when I think about it.

Edited by Chickeninja

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1 hour ago, lemonlover996 said:

wrapping up my rather long rant, i guess you should at least try to play differently. step out of your comfort zone a bit, try something new for a change. 

Thanks for the generous advice but you know how it is when trying new things: you go on vacation and decide to take a vacation from the vacation, a trip within the trip, as it were. Then you could still decide to try something new, and on the way to that new thing, you could decide to try something new. :wacko:

I dunno man, but at some point I'm sick of having to try new things. Particularly when they start to feel like work. And that's how I feel about the update: too much effort/time required for too little reward/benefit. But that's just me and your mileage may vary of course.

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15 hours ago, DLB HennehBee said:

Hey guys something is wrong with BtZ. Hunter's are shooting 100+ spits. Did you turn on an Event and forget to turn it off?

1

In a 4v1, the Hunter regenerates spits every 20 seconds. So, for example, if a match lasts exactly 12 minutes or 720 Seconds, the Night Hunter generates 36 spits (x2 since there are passive and aggressive spits) or a total of 72 spits. The amount of spits is overkill hence why most people on this thread agree that the regen times need to be reduced (:

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On 2/2/2018 at 10:03 AM, Vertigo said:

In a 4v1, the Hunter regenerates spits every 20 seconds. So, for example, if a match lasts exactly 12 minutes or 720 Seconds, the Night Hunter generates 36 spits (x2 since there are passive and aggressive spits) or a total of 72 spits. The amount of spits is overkill hence why most people on this thread agree that the regen times need to be reduced (:

Vertigo, yeah man I know. I'm just being sarcastic. The amount of spits that are happening are so obscene that it is almost equivalent to the Event they had when Hunters had unlimited spits and Survivors had unlimited flares.

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Hey Techland just checking in! My friends and I have moved on to other games because we can't all play together in 3v1's or 4v1's anymore. Once in a great while we'll check out Btz, remember that the patch makes it almost unplayable, and dip out to a different game. 1v1's and 2v1's are cool, but when all my friends are on and we all want to play together we gotta go somewhere else. 
I'm really glad you finally gave the Hunter a life buff in 2v1s. I'm glad you nerfed the drop attack. Good calls guys.
But you can't nerf UV AND buff spits. It's gotta be one or the other. I mean you took auto balance away for both sides, but the buff that you've given the Hunter pretty much puts them in a constant state of autobalance buff. 
Since so many people are complaining about this patch are you guys going to do anything about it? Even skilled Hunters are moving on because you've made the game too easy for them. 
I really miss the good old days when Hunters could instant tackle and GP spit. Back when my UV would return a split second after my flare would go out. When skilled Hunters and Humans could throw down and get sweaty. Now Hunters just throw spit after spit after spit and run away while we get telebombed or Hunters pounce us when we spawn alone because our flares went out way before our UV lights came back. 
You do realize that with this patch you've given people who are on low skill levels the ability to win matches against people who are on higher skill levels, right?
You do realize that Hunters who have a high level of skill are bored with how easy it is now, right? That's not a balanced game guys! 

 

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