Ninja

Hunter Bug Fixes And Balancing Suggestions

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Hi All,

 

I know for a long time hunters have been complaining the game is in the survivors favour. Yes I agree that it has but now it is the other way around so hunters don't need to complain anymore. As a survivor i do welcome the changes however got a couple of problems at the moment -

 

1) Techland can you fix the teleporting bombers, wherever you are the bombers can teleport into you and they seem to kill me at least once a game which makes it really unfair for survivor especially if i am on the roof.

 

2) Nerf the Hunter heal skill. A lot of the good hunters are abusing this skill, they attack you and then they get hit, then they heal right in front of you and then carry on attacking you. Even during their healing process survivors find it really difficult to kill the hunter unless 2 survivors hit the hunter with a 2 handed weapon at the same time because the healing is so fast. At least make it so that if the survivor hits the hunter during the healing process it will stop the healing process but not his recovery, which punishes hunter for healing right in front of you.....

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2) Nerf the Hunter heal skill. A lot of the good hunters are abusing this skill, they attack you and then they get hit, then they heal right in front of you and then carry on attacking you. Even during their healing process survivors find it really difficult to kill the hunter unless 2 survivors hit the hunter with a 2 handed weapon at the same time because the healing is so fast. At least make it so that if the survivor hits the hunter during the healing process it will stop the healing process but not his recovery, which punishes hunter for healing right in front of you.....

Have you tried throwing one handed just before end of the healing animation and then switching yo rifle or shotgun ? I havent tested slicing with knives but I was slicing with one handed, when animation ends hunter has 30 hp left, sometimes 90 due to hitting the wall instead of hunter xd. Dealing with healing hunters depends on the situation, when he hit you with the horde and you will hit him, he has 30 hp left, then you have to run for you life from bombers he will usually heal and try to chase you after recovery, this is good moment to grapple on some roofs. I had few such situations.

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Really?

 

Humans can heal much faster with countless medkits while being mobile. We only get 2 max and those are also nessesary for uv block. That is three advantages for your side and two disadvantages for mine, be grateful.

 

So stop crying now that the odds are being evened somewhat. There are countless injustices playing as the hunter that have been there since the start. I dont mean to be rude guys but you arnt giving many valid argumentz as to why its fully nessesary.

 

I mean this dude just nullified ninjas argument by saying hunter has 30 life after.

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Well you are probably not that good if you still think hunter is weak and cannot win. As of right now hunter has the advantage over survivor. From my experience the good hunters can nearly get all their energy back healing right in front of you even if we attack him but not kill him during the heal.

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Really?

 

Humans can heal much faster with countless medkits while being mobile. We only get 2 max and those are also nessesary for uv block. That is three advantages for your side and two disadvantages for mine, be grateful.

 

So stop crying now that the odds are being evened somewhat. There are countless injustices playing as the hunter that have been there since the start. I dont mean to be rude guys but you arnt giving many valid argumentz as to why its fully nessesary.

 

I mean this dude just nullified ninjas argument by saying hunter has 30 life after.

ninja is talking about situations where human is on nightmare, on normal you can use heal 2 times by the time hunter will recover from heal animation, so on normal i dont give a s.it. But there are some situations on nightmare when this is really annoying. Although I've never complained abut that.That is maybe because i haven't played with hunter abusing this skill. Telebomber is a game changer i had a few matches where i lost only because of telebombers. If telebombers will be fixed i will have nothing to complain about until i find hunters abusing sth different. Real chupacabra is ground pound + spit, this is harder to avoid than execute. You are doomed when hunter is doing this, you have to run... run like hell and use all you've got to avoid this, hide in buildings... jump on poles, hide behind zombies, obstacles and other covers.

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Really?

 

Humans can heal much faster with countless medkits while being mobile. We only get 2 max and those are also nessesary for uv block. That is three advantages for your side and two disadvantages for mine, be grateful.

 

So stop crying now that the odds are being evened somewhat. There are countless injustices playing as the hunter that have been there since the start. I dont mean to be rude guys but you arnt giving many valid argumentz as to why its fully nessesary.

 

I mean this dude just nullified ninjas argument by saying hunter has 30 life after.

Ninja maybe never played with hunter.. thats why he opened this topic.
Only one thing i agree with ninja.. is about the telebombers.. its very unfair play.
 
But some hunters and some survivors are more fast than anothers pro players because of the laaag.
Not because of balancing game.
Edited by DaniloC.Q

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Survivors spam medkits..So what DK and DFA not good enough? I didnt say i was good so dont use that as an argument, as its not. I dont have to be good hunter to understand certain things, just practical.

 

If tackle and pounce was unblockable you wouldn't last. These moves aren't unblockable just difficult to counter. Unlike for your side.

 

I just gave you 5 reasons to shut the up. You are probably not that smart if you think the hunter ever had the advantage.

 

If you wanted to continue this argument id be more than happy to indulge you, if that is you were capable of fully understanding.

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Well you just said you don't have a good hunter. I'm sorry but i'd rather discuss with someone that has a good hunter for their opinion as i am talking about the high level side not the low level side. I don't want to be discussing with someone saying drop kick/ DFA and medkits is not fair. Lol

 

Other than that i feel the game is fair or advantage is leaning towards the hunter if its 1v1 or 2v1.

Edited by Ninja

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Well are you a good hunter Ninja? :P As for healing, humans are always regenerating health due to duped medkits and legend rank 250 so they can always have the healing buff on. And that's fine. UV heal on the other hand is not something you can spam and using it is very situational. DFA has a bit too strong magnetism, you can see some good examples in your own videos so some could say that is a bit unfair. 

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Even thought i just told you, you dont have the faculties to comprehend, and that im not going to further argue with an idiot, you still try to say that your ending the debate?

 

Dude your an idiot.

 

Besides thats like saying a driver has no clue how to drive a sportscar because he isnt a world champion. Decent survivors are common just like yourself.

 

Im certain you wouldn't want to discuss dfa or dk cause your brain cant fathom a reasonable argument. It just is to you isnt it?

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Nope i don't have a good hunter only a good survivor that's why im asking for good hunters opinion i guess. I understand about UV heal i don't mind it but at least allow hunters to run away and use it rather than allowing the hunter to use it in the survivors face and not get punished for it. When they UV healed in front of me i was alone in a 2v1 game and did a tackle and hammer and it still didn't kill. 

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Well are you a good hunter Ninja? :P As for healing, humans are always regenerating health due to duped medkits and legend rank 250 so they can always have the healing buff on. And that's fine. UV heal on the other hand is not something you can spam and using it is very situational. DFA has a bit too strong magnetism, you can see some good examples in your own videos so some could say that is a bit unfair. 

Actually about the magnetism Techland can probably stop the magnetism if a survivor is holding down left mouse button for a dfa. That's a good point too

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In my eyes this topic is a consequence of game tweaks/measures described in the April thread "Hunter OP means less Fun". There, I took the blame for stating that hunter is OP at certain times, and I still won't change my mind and stand my ground on this.

 

Pete already agreed that 1v1 is "tough" from survivor point of view. I would still go further and state that the measures taken may have corrected the number of wins, but have achieved this mainly through statistical means: the chance that a bomber hits survivor after a Horde Spit has clearly been raised, with floating, bullet speed bombers flying up roofs, coming from nowhere etc. Result: while the hunter has his wins, the game feels more "random", losing a bit the nice "immediacy and precision" qualities that originally drew me here. Sure, wins are important but so is fun. 

 

Idk but I play this kind of game mode not to test my luck, as in games of chance, but to enjoy control over zombie and/or character in the setting of game of strategy. So even if the number of wins looks more correct from Devs point of view, the way this is achieved is less fun for survivors, who play a game expecting epic challenges with emphasis on some realism in combat, to be too often wiped out by random statistics and magic, in the form of bombers from nowhere.

 

Now the stats have been pushed to this degree, an experienced survivor can no longer protect beginners to the game mode without losing. This doesn't stop yours truly from playing, but it does become less fun if only groups with few hundred hours of survivor experience can consistently (I don't care about a few odd wins or losses) hold down a hunter with merely medium skills and less than 100 hours of experience: When experienced survivors have to shepherd one or two beginners, then the game is rigged against them expanding player base!!!

 

I've also increasingly observed the game simply not registering hits that were on time. On both sides: for my hunter and survivor, a timely ground pound, drop kick, even melee hit will do no damage. Was running down a street yesterday in a straight line with a hunter coming at me opposite with great speed and my UV lamp on him directly: he pounced right through that and told me "?" because even he saw the light. I couldn't have missed and the light was on correct direction due to HUD and street layout. A lot of this translates to "poor quality of game play" from players' point of view, so future fixes or attempts at the game mode should address this.

 

If we want the game mode to have a long life, then introducing beginners on survivor side should be incentivized. Hunters want games as well and this is the only long term delivery system, as the launch + DLC recede into the past. Lets get real.

 

Besides bombers: the tackle knock back is lame and dulls the playing experience. Why does Crane suddenly have the urge to sit, lie down and sleep? I know that watching somebody else get tackled can get boring and induce sleepiness but... :D Suggestion: At least AoE should be visible, which could be done with some fancy graphics work.

 

And yes, if there is weak pin or significant lag, we shouldn't police peoples' internet speeds but we should tell both hunter AND survivor that network conditions are unfavorable to optimal, lag-free experience of the game. Folks should know that their GPs or melee hits not connecting could be due to other factors than skill.

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The only thing I agree with is the telebombers.

 

UV Heal however is fine as it is. If a hunter UV heals in front of you its actually a bad idea because if you're with friends you can kill him before the animation finishes, and even if you're not playing with friends if you time it just right you can kill him. Plus he can be dropkicked into spikes or general, and the option of a DFA is there. Honestly this the hunter's most vulnerable moment, and he can just wait for his health to regen normally and save the UV Shield to possibly kill you.

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The only thing I agree with is the telebombers.

 

UV Heal however is fine as it is. If a hunter UV heals in front of you its actually a bad idea because if you're with friends you can kill him before the animation finishes, and even if you're not playing with friends if you time it just right you can kill him. Plus he can be dropkicked into spikes or general, and the option of a DFA is there. Honestly this the hunter's most vulnerable moment, and he can just wait for his health to regen normally and save the UV Shield to possibly kill you.

 

Telebombers are an issue, but the source problem is Horde pathing altogether. They still get caught on small obstacles, don't OHKO, stop pursuing, kill the Night Hunter, and/or don't spawn for a long time/at all on some occasions. They can be very useful and are a lot better than they were pre-patch, but they're still inconsistent as an AI overall, both for the Humans and the NH.

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Besides bombers: the tackle knock back is lame and dulls the playing experience. Why does Crane suddenly have the urge to sit, lie down and sleep? I know that watching somebody else get tackled can get boring and induce sleepiness but... :D Suggestion: At least AoE should be visible, which could be done with some fancy graphics work.

 

 

No way the tackle knock back (which knocks other players down if they are near hunter if that's what you mean) is so fair for hunter. Back in the days players can wait around the hunter for him to successfully tackle a survivor and then the other survivors kill him during animation. Yes that was an unfair and lol moment to kill hunter.

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No way the tackle knock back (which knocks other players down if they are near hunter if that's what you mean) is so fair for hunter. Back in the days players can wait around the hunter for him to successfully tackle a survivor and then the other survivors kill him during animation. Yes that was an unfair and lol moment to kill hunter.

 

Nobody said anything about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I didn't imply the tackle mechanism to be unfair: that's your interpretation + the assumption that I am on some side in the boring "Hunter vs. Survivor debate". I couldn't care less about those posts, complaints, and artificial debates where everybody wants to shove their wishful thinking and bad sportsmanship down others' playing experience throats... but I do care about the fun of my playing experience. Nonetheless, I'm the guy who'll try to play with beginning survivors even if it means losses for me these days, with the game setup like this.

 

I said tackle knock back isn't fun and makes no sense in game. Why take a nap now, of all mother of god times, Crane? :lol: There are multiple ways to better AND keep the mechanism without immobilizing Crane for bedtime; like a shock wave that keeps Crane out of AoE, which might even damage or prevent him from getting closer. If that AoE were visible, e.g. in some Tom Clancy like animation or like the visible shock wave I mentioned, then survivors could keep their mobility from a visibly safe distance and use the time to better position themselves and/or change their item/weapon selection, heal etc.

 

For instance, we could keep the part where only the tackled survivor gets a shot at a hit for the hunter post animation. And yet, this also lacks stability, as tackling can be done almost anywhere post patch but the survivor's chance for a riposte that connects is really dependent on local geography of the game world. This is too fuzzy: say we are in a part of town where buildings are particularly high and hunter can tackle through walls and the animation keeps landing the survivor too far to counter the tackle: then the hunter has a win because of one nest being placed advantageously for him and not because he was using his brain. He wins because he just mashes tackle in the right part of town. Note that a tackle properly executed will already not allow survivor to dodge, so the cards are already stacked in favor of hunter with this mechanism, despite all the folks that complain of its uselessness.

 

For a game of strategy this mechanism, in its current state, is a clear fail. For a game of chance this may be normal, but as indicated I don't like the chance/stats part of the game. Imho if you like random tackles and the computer to do the work for you- a la "just press Q or E, no need to think about it"- and this randomness helps determine the majority of wins, you might also like rock, paper, scissors in which randomness totally dominates strategy. I prefer for wins to feel deserved and less the tendency of the game's development post patch to choose chance/statistics over the immediacy of moves and options to counter so that win/loss statistics are more equal. This is artificial progress imho. It makes wins and losses feel more "lucky" instead of awesome. 

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Nobody said anything about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I didn't imply the tackle mechanism to be unfair: that's your interpretation + the assumption that I am on some side in the boring "Hunter vs. Survivor debate". I couldn't care less about those posts, complaints, and artificial debates where everybody wants to shove their wishful thinking and bad sportsmanship down others' playing experience throats... but I do care about the fun of my playing experience. Nonetheless, I'm the guy who'll try to play with beginning survivors even if it means losses for me these days, with the game setup like this.

 

I said tackle knock back isn't fun and makes no sense in game. Why take a nap now, of all mother of god times, Crane? :lol: There are multiple ways to better AND keep the mechanism without immobilizing Crane for bedtime; like a shock wave that keeps Crane out of AoE, which might even damage or prevent him from getting closer. If that AoE were visible, e.g. in some Tom Clancy like animation or like the visible shock wave I mentioned, then survivors could keep their mobility from a visibly safe distance and use the time to better position themselves and/or change their item/weapon selection, heal etc.

 

For instance, we could keep the part where only the tackled survivor gets a shot at a hit for the hunter post animation. And yet, this also lacks stability, as tackling can be done almost anywhere post patch but the survivor's chance for a riposte that connects is really dependent on local geography of the game world. This is too fuzzy: say we are in a part of town where buildings are particularly high and hunter can tackle through walls and the animation keeps landing the survivor too far to counter the tackle: then the hunter has a win because of one nest being placed advantageously for him and not because he was using his brain. He wins because he just mashes tackle in the right part of town. Note that a tackle properly executed will already not allow survivor to dodge, so the cards are already stacked in favor of hunter with this mechanism, despite all the folks that complain of its uselessness.

 

For a game of strategy this mechanism, in its current state, is a clear fail. For a game of chance this may be normal, but as indicated I don't like the chance/stats part of the game. Imho if you like random tackles and the computer to do the work for you- a la "just press Q or E, no need to think about it"- and this randomness helps determine the majority of wins, you might also like rock, paper, scissors in which randomness totally dominates strategy. I prefer for wins to feel deserved and less the tendency of the game's development post patch to choose chance/statistics over the immediacy of moves and options to counter so that win/loss statistics are more equal. This is artificial progress imho. It makes wins and losses feel more "lucky" instead of awesome. 

 

 

Before "The Following" when we knew that kill during successfull tackle is going to be fixed somehow, i thoght that it will just shove the survivor away like with ground pound but without damage. I was quite surprised that Pete, who was so convservatist about hunter incorporated such powerfull ability.

 

On the other way, stun after hitting the wall was reduced to keep hunters from spamming GP, but it indiced other problems. Now human can immediately slash hunter when hit the wall while him still being in tackle animation. I died few times like that, i think that emtrix have an example in his movie with me when i tackled him from below while him standing on building part and he killed me right away.

 

 

About the balance, the game is not balanced when everybody are happy, it's balanced when both sides complain equally :)

Edited by sanjyuubi

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Failed tackle and pounce animations are a near death sentence for hunter. Hunter should have some ability to keep you back. One hit from 3 players is absurd. I mean we dont have the power of surprise. If tackle were to get us killed like it did then we would be more inclined to spam gp/spit smash in order to only survive.

 

If hunter can die with so few hits then this implies we should have some other way to prevent getting hit in the first place. Otherwise its too easy. Hunter goes extinct.

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