Wiggelz

Would Love To See A 2Nd Zombie Added.

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So I love what techland has done with the NH and for the most part, 90%, I think it's quite balanced. I see a lot of complaints on here but most are just personnal stuff. One thing I notice is people want more for BTZ than just the one playstyle.

 

I would love to see a mode available for 2 NH to join. The one thing I love about the normal human side if the game is the teamwork and I'd love to have that on the zombie side. It's just a fact that if you're alone you'll tend to be slower and more cautious whereas if you have a buddy you're willing to jump in the fray more and be able to talk to someone.

 

I know this would be tough to balance but Techland is a smart bunch of people and I think they'd like the challenge but let's start up this thread to give some ideas. Here are some thoughts I have:

 

- Allow humans to choose if they want to be invaded by only 1 hunter or 2.

- Add a class system to zombies. (This allows different methods of teamwork and gives the humans a challenge of different combos of NH)

+ Stealth Hunter: Has an ability, similar to a cloak potion, that allows the hunter to go invisible to survivor sense for a short time.

+ Brute Hunter: Focused on raw melee power. Better ground pound and tackles. Can enrage to run faster and only stagger when hit by buggies.

+ Toad Hunter: Weaker melee hits but has an arsenol of spits. Better at range and has actual damaging spits.

- Weaken the NH when 2 join. Only allow 2v4, 2v3 or 2v2 while adjusting damage to suit the opponents.

 

The main thing I'd like to see this implemented is to introduce the NH system to the weaker PvP players. It can be EXTREMELY intimidating to try the NH alone and get discouraged by being alone and getting beat up and end up stop playing BTZ. This would give them incentive to at least try and learn or have a friend help them learn and have the confidence to play alone sometimes.

Edited by Wiggelz

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This may just be my personal stuff but I've always thought ideas in this direction to be awesome.  :) Love reading such ideas. Especially when combined with more player control and transparency of profiles. Matches including friends and teamwork are the best and it'd indeed be great to have that kind of gameplay available as hunter.

Edited by Chickeninja

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I do like the event idea but I think that should be for addition things. I think having a friend would allow people who would otherwise be too timid to play a PVP match, not only alone but outnumbered, can be intimidating. This means that a good percentage of people try the NH gameplay, get owned or can't do anything, then pack it up and never play that again. I enjoy the human gameplay, campaign and invasions, 1000 times more with a friend to talk to rather than alone.

Edited by Wiggelz

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I do like the event idea but I think that should be for addition things. I think having a friend would allow people who would otherwise be too timid to play a PVP match, not only alone but outnumbered, can be intimidating. This means that a good percentage of people try the NH gameplay, get owned or can't do anything, then pack it up and never play that again. I enjoy the human gameplay, campaign and invasions, 1000 times more with a friend to talk to rather than alone.

Lol.. hunter 1 starts, then hunter 2 gets in.. survivor: 'Oh and I thought 1 NH was bad enough..' :D I like the idea though, I feel lonely in long games :/

Edited by Sniper BLM

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I find it's mixed. I join some fames and wreck as 1 huntet abd I join some games with experianced 250 legend that flare spam and get maybe 2 kills. The tough matches would be bearable if they had to worry about a 2nd NH but when 2 good players focus you and flare/dodge spam it's very tough. I've also had matches where 1 good person will focus the hunter while others kill nests.

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I like how there were people talking about this a long time ago and they were against it, but now it seems that everybody is agreeing on the idea.

Wonder what caused them to change their thoughts.

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I like how there were people talking about this a long time ago and they were against it, but now it seems that everybody is agreeing on the idea.

Wonder what caused them to change their thoughts.

 

I still disagree for the same reasons I stated months ago.

 

Having two night hunters will pull away from the asymmetric gameplay and dives more into the realm of team death match which has already been done a million times. Hunter players who prefer to go solo won't have that option since control of match participants will most likely be in the survivors hands, like every other match parameter. This would also mean the inevitable balance restrictions placed on games with two hunters will affect you even more if your hunter teammate is less than ideal, which is the same complaints survivor players have with others except they can actually do something about it. 

 

My biggest complaint about all this is if the idea of two hunters in a match actually sounds more balanced and not overpowered (especially in a 1v1 setting) then the night hunter himself isn't strong enough. This is just a band aid covering the main issue that people think they need help when in reality their character was designed to take on four opponents at once. Throwing additional night hunters into the mix imo is not a good balancing strategy at all. Both sides need to be tweaked until the game reaches it's original intended state before moving on and transforming it into something else entirely.

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I still disagree for the same reasons I stated months ago.

 

Having two night hunters will pull away from the asymmetric gameplay and dives more into the realm of team death match which has already been done a million times. Hunter players who prefer to go solo won't have that option since control of match participants will most likely be in the survivors hands, like every other match parameter. This would also mean the inevitable balance restrictions placed on games with two hunters will affect you even more if your hunter teammate is less than ideal, which is the same complaints survivor players have with others except they can actually do something about it.

 

My biggest complaint about all this is if the idea of two hunters in a match actually sounds more balanced and not overpowered (especially in a 1v1 setting) then the night hunter himself isn't strong enough. This is just a band aid covering the main issue that people think they need help when in reality their character was designed to take on four opponents at once. Throwing additional night hunters into the mix imo is not a good balancing strategy at all. Both sides need to be tweaked until the game reaches it's original intended state before moving on and transforming it into something else entirely.

Soo ...why not add an option to choose to fight vs 1 or 2? Im a decent suvivor (60 hours, lvl 25, 24, 24, 15, 250) and I dont mind fighting vs 2 hunters as it will be more challenging and some hunters are easy to win against.. an option to choose between 1 or 2NHs would be fine as it basicly doesnt de-balance Btz in anyway and only adds a challenge to those who want to, right?

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Soo ...why not add an option to choose to fight vs 1 or 2? Im a decent suvivor (60 hours, lvl 25, 24, 24, 15, 250) and I dont mind fighting vs 2 hunters as it will be more challenging and some hunters are easy to win against.. an option to choose between 1 or 2NHs would be fine as it basicly doesnt de-balance Btz in anyway and only adds a challenge to those who want to, right?

 

I'm a night hunter player, I don't get that option.

 

That's basically saying I have the ability to kick another player from a game in which someone else is the host. That's not possible as the host is the one who controls all the match parameters.

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I'm a night hunter player, I don't get that option.

 

That's basically saying I have the ability to kick another player from a game in which someone else is the host. That's not possible as the host is the one who controls all the match parameters.

So for example the host will choose to fight 2 hunters, yu join and some other dude joins aswell while yu want to be alone? Hmm.. I didnt think of it that way though...

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So for example the host will choose to fight 2 hunters, yu join and some other dude joins aswell while yu want to be alone? Hmm.. I didnt think of it that way though...

 

Exactly. Having two maxed out night hunters with no kind of restrictions on abilities would be unbalanced especially in a 1v1 setting. To prevent unfair matches both night hunters will most likely share spits or have a cooldown increase. I have no choice who I get partnered with, so if I get an absolute beginner then that puts a limit on my ability since my partner will most likely not utilize the advantage of two night hunters. I would rather keep all of my cooldowns as they are then be limited and held back by my teammate. There are already a plethora of night hunters who complain about the rubberband system putting too many restrictions on them when they're winning, how much worse do you think it'll be if you have to deal with that for an entire match from start to finish because there are two night hunters?

Edited by jcks

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I have no choice who I get partnered with, so if I get an absolute beginner then that puts a limit on my ability since my partner will most likely not utilize the advantage of two night hunters. I would rather keep all of my cooldowns as they are then be limited and held back by my teammate. There are already a plethora of night hunters who complain about the rubberband system putting too many restrictions on them when they're winning, how much worse do you think it'll be if you have to deal with that for an entire match from start to finish because there are two night hunters?

Dont matches get made based on rank? I am a 'hunter' 11th rank mutation 3 lvl 48 and I never played against survivors lower then the 9th rank 'dominant' since I reached my rank, and as survivor 10th rank 'ruthless' I havent had to fight anyone lower then the rank 'widow maker' though.. If matches are made based on rank I dont see a possibility of being put with a beginner..

 

EDIT: less text in quote,

Edited by Sniper BLM

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Dont matches get made based on rank? I am a 'hunter' 11th rank mutation 3 lvl 48 and I never played against survivors lower then the 9th rank 'dominant' since I reached my rank, and as survivor 10th rank 'ruthless' I havent had to fight anyone lower then the rank 'widow maker' though.. If matches are made based on rank I dont see a possibility of being put with a beginner..

 

EDIT: less text in quote,

 

Matchmaking system doesn't always work as intended. There have been cases where beginner night hunters have been matched against ultimate survivors. Night hunters can also bypass matchmaking entirely and go straight to whoever is available, which most of the time is beginner survivors.

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Matchmaking system doesn't always work as intended. There have been cases where beginner night hunters have been matched against ultimate survivors. Night hunters can also bypass matchmaking entirely and go straight to whoever is available, which most of the time is beginner survivors.

Oh, Im playing on Xbox One so I had no idea yu could choose for specific matches as we only have 'quick join' here.., however wont there always be a problem with sertain ideas? As now 2 NHs would be awesome, but as as mentioned it may de-balance the game, may be put in a match with another hunter while yu want to be alone, or yu may be put in a match where yu are with a beginner hunter.., or normal mode: people complain about insta-heal meds cuz they heal 150 health in 2 sec (assuming someone is lvl 250 leg.) Repeatly while it wasnt intended meds to be used like this (like this = spamming), or the stash was meant to be a sort of place where yu can store items if yur inventory was full but instead people used it to duplicate items, or with shops it was intended to let people spend money for better equipment but ended up with people duplicating their fav. weapon 1000x or more, (Im talking about problems and flaws here, not specific the exploit subject)

 

2 hunters could be intended to be a bigger challenge for some people that want to, but it will have problems or even missused (maybe end up with 3 hunters? Lol) de-balance, shared spits (yu can see the problem if yu think about it), teamed up with 'noobs' (as I like to call them) or teamed up while yu dont even want to have a teammate... every idea has problems/flaws or will be exploited purpose, which eventually will get fixed and made better (or worse like the rubberbanding system),

 

I dont think the problem like teamed up with a 'noob' or teamed up with a guy while yu want to be alone seems that bad as it sounds, maybe Techland can make this temporay change and we can decide to keep it or not?

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It looks liike the biggest complaint would be to join a match with another NH who is a noob and failing. This is the same on the human side already. If you wanted this option you could opt in to only see 1 NH games and not the 2 NH. As mentioned.... they now allow humans to get to 275 hp, 150 medkits, one hit crossbow bolts, 2h melee power, duping for infinite flares/medkits, and buggies that we can't stop at full speed unless super lucky with GP. When I play against 3-4 humans, legend 250, it is already a burden to get a spit stuck and even when it does they work together to negate it anyways. This won't become a team death match cause it's not about K/D on both side.

 

Also, for the times you do get stuck with the noob hunter partner you will also get an awesome partner. It is inevitable that one comes your way. On the PS4 we can search matches so I almost always know what the fight is going to be aside from skill level.

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Oh, Im playing on Xbox One so I had no idea yu could choose for specific matches as we only have 'quick join' here.., however wont there always be a problem with sertain ideas? As now 2 NHs would be awesome, but as as mentioned it may de-balance the game, may be put in a match with another hunter while yu want to be alone, or yu may be put in a match where yu are with a beginner hunter.., or normal mode: people complain about insta-heal meds cuz they heal 150 health in 2 sec (assuming someone is lvl 250 leg.) Repeatly while it wasnt intended meds to be used like this (like this = spamming), or the stash was meant to be a sort of place where yu can store items if yur inventory was full but instead people used it to duplicate items, or with shops it was intended to let people spend money for better equipment but ended up with people duplicating their fav. weapon 1000x or more, (Im talking about problems and flaws here, not specific the exploit subject)

 

2 hunters could be intended to be a bigger challenge for some people that want to, but it will have problems or even missused (maybe end up with 3 hunters? Lol) de-balance, shared spits (yu can see the problem if yu think about it), teamed up with 'noobs' (as I like to call them) or teamed up while yu dont even want to have a teammate... every idea has problems/flaws or will be exploited purpose, which eventually will get fixed and made better (or worse like the rubberbanding system),

 

I dont think the problem like teamed up with a 'noob' or teamed up with a guy while yu want to be alone seems that bad as it sounds, maybe Techland can make this temporay change and we can decide to keep it or not?

 

Duping was an unintended issue that has plagued the mode since the beginning, along with a lot of other glitches. However adding two night hunters would be a deliberate feature by the devs based on community feedback. With that they'll need to balance it appropriately so as to preserve the essence of the game and not break anything in the process. But seeing as how far away two night hunters is from the original concept I don't see it happening. Throughout the lifetime of this game mode devs have been very keen to sticking with their original vision for playing it and most of the patches have been towards preserving that (removing OHKs, limiting flare and grappling hook usage, adding timeouts, eliminating all night hunter glitches, etc.). Having two night hunters destroys the 4v1 aspect and means they'll have to go back to the drawing board not only with balance issues but how matchmaking works in general. That's going to take more work than people realize and I'm not sure BtZ is under the budget to have such a huge undertaking like that.

 

It looks liike the biggest complaint would be to join a match with another NH who is a noob and failing. This is the same on the human side already. If you wanted this option you could opt in to only see 1 NH games and not the 2 NH. As mentioned.... they now allow humans to get to 275 hp, 150 medkits, one hit crossbow bolts, 2h melee power, duping for infinite flares/medkits, and buggies that we can't stop at full speed unless super lucky with GP. When I play against 3-4 humans, legend 250, it is already a burden to get a spit stuck and even when it does they work together to negate it anyways. This won't become a team death match cause it's not about K/D on both side.

 

Also, for the times you do get stuck with the noob hunter partner you will also get an awesome partner. It is inevitable that one comes your way. On the PS4 we can search matches so I almost always know what the fight is going to be aside from skill level.

 

It wouldn't matter if I chose a game with one night hunter slot though. That setting is at the discretion of the survivor player and at any time they can open it up to two slots instead of one. Not to mention this can be exploited by trolls who will have a friend play one night hunter and do nothing, meaning the second night hunter suffers massive nerfs. You as a night hunter have no way of kicking this player and thus are forced to quit.

 

Yes humans get all those from the new update but the answer to that isn't balancing it by adding two night hunters. You can tweak individual game parameters to make it so damage is scaled, the health the hunter is increased to match survivors, cooldowns for duped inventories, etc. Like I said before the night hunter is designed to take on 4 opponents at once and if  you're having trouble with that the answer isn't to throw a second player in the match, you need to make the night hunter actually strong enough to do what he was designed to do. Besides there's no guarantee that two night hunters would even help, if one survivor in a 1v2+ match can take on the night hunter on his own then how do you expect two night hunters to take on four survivors? You need a night hunter for each survivor player so everyone will be matched evenly. But then you start getting away from asymmetric gameplay and mudding up the game with team death match esque battles where only one player is the host and has control over all the match settings. 

 

Having multiple night hunters introduces more problems than it solves. The solution here is tweak the balance between both sides not keep adding additional players and using skill as a basis for balance.

Edited by jcks

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Duping was an unintended issue that has plagued the mode since the beginning, along with a lot of other glitches. However adding two night hunters would be a deliberate feature by the devs based on community feedback. With that they'll need to balance it appropriately so as to preserve the essence of the game and not break anything in the process. But seeing as how far away two night hunters is from the original concept I don't see it happening. Throughout the lifetime of this game mode devs have been very keen to sticking with their original vision for playing it and most of the patches have been towards preserving that (removing OHKs, limiting flare and grappling hook usage, adding timeouts, eliminating all night hunter glitches, etc.). Having two night hunters destroys the 4v1 aspect and means they'll have to go back to the drawing board not only with balance issues but how matchmaking works in general. That's going to take more work than people realize and I'm not sure BtZ is under the budget to have such a huge undertaking like that.

 

 

It wouldn't matter if I chose a game with one night hunter slot though. That setting is at the discretion of the survivor player and at any time they can open it up to two slots instead of one. Not to mention this can be exploited by trolls who will have a friend play one night hunter and do nothing, meaning the second night hunter suffers massive nerfs. You as a night hunter have no way of kicking this player and thus are forced to quit.

 

Yes humans get all those from the new update but the answer to that isn't balancing it by adding two night hunters. You can tweak individual game parameters to make it so damage is scaled, the health the hunter is increased to match survivors, cooldowns for duped inventories, etc. Like I said before the night hunter is designed to take on 4 opponents at once and if you're having trouble with that the answer isn't to throw a second player in the match, you need to make the night hunter actually strong enough to do what he was designed to do. Besides there's no guarantee that two night hunters would even help, if one survivor in a 1v2+ match can take on the night hunter on his own then how do you expect two night hunters to take on four survivors? You need a night hunter for each survivor player so everyone will be matched evenly. But then you start getting away from asymmetric gameplay and mudding up the game with team death match esque battles where only one player is the host and has control over all the match settings.

 

Having multiple night hunters introduces more problems than it solves. The solution here is tweak the balance between both sides not keep adding additional players and using skill as a basis for balance.

How to balance it: Give the NH 50/100+ health (or more) per player in the game (and decrease it whenever a player leaves rhe game)... solved... No? Then 1v1 it stays the exact same as it is now, and people actually has to work together right?

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It seems that you're very cinical in this whole situation jcks. Whether they get the funding to do this or they focus something else or whatever. They have the ability to take BTZ to a big part of the game. To say they've tried to preserve it is a stretch. How was adding buggies and bows/crossbows and other means of killing a NH keeping the game normal. Add a function to not allow others to join once a game starts cause I also dislike being in a 2v1 and another human joins 2 nests in that's 250 and the game I had a chance in is now pointless.

 

You're focusing so much on what people will exploit, having friends join as NH and sit there. How can you base a game mode on that? These small things can easily be countered.

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It seems that you're very cinical in this whole situation jcks. Whether they get the funding to do this or they focus something else or whatever. They have the ability to take BTZ to a big part of the game. To say they've tried to preserve it is a stretch. How was adding buggies and bows/crossbows and other means of killing a NH keeping the game normal. Add a function to not allow others to join once a game starts cause I also dislike being in a 2v1 and another human joins 2 nests in that's 250 and the game I had a chance in is now pointless.

 

You're focusing so much on what people will exploit, having friends join as NH and sit there. How can you base a game mode on that? These small things can easily be countered.

I'm just bringing up sides of the issue that no one is talking about which would personally affect me. Ask yourself these questions: why do you want a second night hunter? Is it too challenging by yourself? Is one night hunter to easy as a survivor? Is the game feeling repetitive and you want something to spice it up? The answer to all of these save the last one resides in balancing both sides. Throwing in a second night hunter does not fix everything and introduces more problems than if each issue were to be tackled individually.

 

I've been on this forum for more than a year now. I've seen the evolution of every patch and I can say with complete certainty that the devs do everything they can to preserve their vision of this game. I can even find you a direct quote when I get to a computer. There have been tons of ideas that were shut down because of this to the point where one can infer that BtZ is not a top priority for techland. There are not going to be any more major changes to this mode unless it carries over from single player on the survivor side. If I sound cynical then this is why. I've accepted that this is the game we play and if there to be any changes it needs to be within the scope of their current plans for BtZ. Any other discussions should be aimed towards the sequel where there is a higher chance of any of these suggestions happening.

Edited by jcks

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I'm just bringing up sides of the issue that no one is talking about which would personally affect me. Ask yourself these questions: why do you want a second night hunter? Is it too challenging by yourself? Is one night hunter to easy as a survivor? Is the game feeling repetitive and you want something to spice it up? The answer to all of these save the last one resides in balancing both sides. Throwing in a second night hunter does not fix everything and introduces more problems than if each issue were to be tackled individually.

 

I've been on this forum for more than a year now. I've seen the evolution of every patch and I can say with complete certainty that the devs do everything they can to preserve their vision of this game. I can even find you a direct quote when I get to a computer. There have been tons of ideas that were shut down because of this to the point where one can infer that BtZ is not a top priority for techland. There are not going to be any more major changes to this mode unless it carries over from single player on the survivor side. If I sound cynical then this is why. I've accepted that this is the game we play and if there to be any changes it needs to be within the scope of their current plans for BtZ. Anything other discussions should be aimed towards the sequel where there is a higher chance of any of these suggestions happening.

If adding a 2nd Night Hunter is so game breaking or one of the major changes, why did Survivors gets 75 more health, a buggy, electric cage and portable safezones and everything for on the buggy while we Night hunters are just.. well not rlly much inproved 'skill' wise, we didnt get any new skills (aside from some passive ones) mutations or whatever? On The Following Ive seen many, many Night hunters struggling cuz of the buggy with upgrades, (Im one of them) but that didnt cause de-balance in Btz? Plus their 75 extra health makes it even more difficult along with their magical insta-heal on normal mode where the majority of players play on, why cant we get a companion to aid us in the fight against those survivors? It doesnt neccesary mean that the current night hunter is too weak as he is now, some survivors can fight an Apex Predator and win without many lives lost, and then he can have 3 other people like him on his team on top of it.. that 1 skilled survivor can win against a skilled night hunter doesnt mean the NH is too weak either, and adding a 2nd NH wont make it a team deathmatch will it?

 

If the game MUST be a 1v4 due the hunter must have Super Human Strength and all, why do we get smashed into bits by 3 hits and mostly even 1, we dont have much health, or damage, in 1v4 their total health is 1100 and they can be revived, NHs only have 150, with an average of 55 damage per attack, if they can kill us in basicly 1 hit (without the NH is able to interrupt him) why do we neccesary need 5+ per survivor and thats when they dont use meds (and they are..) Pounces get interrupted easy by a quick flash of UV, then when we are 'stunned' they throw an axe in our back and kill us.. where is this 'Super Human Strength' that we were suppost to have..? It seems just 1 survivor doesnt need much effort to win against a NH, and they can have 4 of them, I dont see a problem adding a companion for the NH tbh.. though, the night hunter isnt too weak.. its the survivor being too strong,

Edited by Sniper BLM

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If adding a 2nd Night Hunter is so game breaking or one of the major changes, why did Survivors gets 75 more health, a buggy, electric cage and portable safezones and everything for on the buggy while we Night hunters are just.. well not rlly much inproved 'skill' wise, we didnt get any new skills (aside from some passive ones) mutations or whatever? On The Following Ive seen many, many Night hunters struggling cuz of the buggy with upgrades, (Im one of them) but that didnt cause de-balance in Btz? Plus their 75 extra health makes it even more difficult along with their magical insta-heal on normal mode where the majority of players play on, why cant we get a companion to aid us in the fight against those survivors? It doesnt neccesary mean that the current night hunter is too weak as he is now, some survivors can fight an Apex Predator and win without many lives lost, and then he can have 3 other people like him on his team on top of it.. that 1 skilled survivor can win against a skilled night hunter doesnt mean the NH is too weak either, and adding a 2nd NH wont make it a team deathmatch will it?

 

If the game MUST be a 1v4 due the hunter must have Super Human Strength and all, why do we get smashed into bits by 3 hits and mostly even 1, we dont have much health, or damage, in 1v4 their total health is 1100 and they can be revived, NHs only have 150, with an average of 55 damage per attack, if they can kill us in basicly 1 hit (without the NH is able to interrupt him) why do we neccesary need 5+ per survivor and thats when they dont use meds (and they are..) Pounces get interrupted easy by a quick flash of UV, then when we are 'stunned' they throw an axe in our back and kill us.. where is this 'Super Human Strength' that we were suppost to have..? It seems just 1 survivor doesnt need much effort to win against a NH, and they can have 4 of them, I dont see a problem adding a companion for the NH tbh.. though, the night hunter isnt too weak.. its the survivor being too strong,

Those are the single player changes I talked about that carry over into multiplayer because BtZ is not a separate entity from the main campaign.

 

Also think about this "Survivors get 75 more health? Throw in two night hunters to balance." That's a LITTLE extreme and a better solution would be to scale the night hunters health or damage instead. Buggies are a moot point because they only apply on one map out of three, you can't make balance changes solely based on one map and not the others. For instance the hunters ability to maintain his momentum from tendril locomotion, which was intended mainly for the following map, has given him a slight advantage on the slums and old town. Instant heal on normal was intended, duping medkits so you can heal your way out of any situation was not.

 

The hunter dies in 3 hits because that's how he was designed, a glass cannon. The devs have already confirmed this was intended from the start so it's most likely not going to change. The night hunter is a high risk high reward character that takes a little bit of work to use correctly. A lot of those things you mentioned fall under the high risk category and were designed to be that way from the start. The only big issues I see people complain about now are the crossbow not being balanced at all and the fact that the hunters spit pounce lock exploit still exists.

Edited by jcks

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Two hunters is an appealing idea for one simple reason: FUN

 

And if more player control goes into match making, coming to some sort of quick handshake between profiles instead of the oversimplified and ineffective green box system, then Jcks can have a pure game as advertising has decreed it before launch, with glass canons that break only once you drop them three times, medkits that only heal when crafted honestly (and thinking nothing improper mind you, while crafting), crossbows that can walk tightropes and hunters that can't use the spit lock pounces. It would be nice to see that pure, balanced game of Jcks once, to learn what everybody is missing out on, by thinking silly 2 hunters nonsense.  :lol: 

 

Yeah, it is optimistic to imagine that people could handshake, play games, and get to know folks that also seek some variety in their game play with a bit more player control over type and number of opponents, level of skill, inventory + perks, agility levels and so on. Getting out of the way and empowering people to choose their kind of game play in multiplayer is of course blasphemous to the purity of the glass canon and the current state-of-affairs. :P

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