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XeNoN

Improving The Ranking System For Nh's

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Since human's can accually get 3 possible items on win/loss in ranking system: g wpns, random wpn and h gland.

I was thinking that NH's could make use of this also especially for maxed ou nh's.

 

What really bothered me is there is no real sense of reward for NH's only the exp, as soon as you reach Apex rank, you're thinking: huh i maxed it yes! But what can i do now except invading games and kill people, to me that sounds pretty straightforward and repetative, only what you can do is start from scratch again...

So anyways i wanna make this suggestion because i believe alot of players feel the same way i do.
Im proud owner of 2 apexes maxed and currently got Hunter rank on M 3 lvl 43, but stopped playing because the reason is already stated above...its fairly easy to max your rank though.

 

Since we NH's only get exp, why cant we get for certain rank special passive skills?

 

Here's what i was thinking:

 

NH ranks and reward:

 

-1 Walker - > starting, no reward

-2 Runner -> no reward

-3 Biter -> no reward

-4 Bolter -> "Pounce regeneration" -> Heals and regenerates stamina over short period of time after succesful pounce, heals 50 % health and 50 % stamina, works also during taking damage, lasts 5 seconds.

-5 Stalker-> no reward

-6 Beast -> no reward

-7 Mauler -> no reward

-8 Juggernaut -> "Seismic Toss" -> During claw attacks, hunter has random chance to trigger Seismic Toss, tendril the human,jump into the air with the victim and slam him to the ground which deals 20 % of their total max health, the skill cannot KO the human but creates shockwave simmilar to ground pound (non upgraded).

-9 Widow Maker -> "Undead Vitality 1" -> Gain +25 Health

-10 Carnivore -> "Undead Vitality 2" -> Gain additional +25 Health

-11 Hunter -> "Undead Vitality 3" -> Gain additional +25 Health

-12 Apex Predator -> "Rupture" -> Hunter's tendrils mutated into spikes and can be useful for damaging players (if they attach to them) from a distance, deals 20 % health as damage and hunter closes in to the target. Works also during attempted pounce, but doesnt work if pounce was succesful.

 

So here it is.

 

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This has to be the best Idea since like - ever.

 

Do you mind if I make some changes though?

 

(NH only gains abilities individually, meaning if it levels up, it only gets the special ability that rank comes with)

 

-1 Walker - > starting, no reward

-2 Runner -> no reward

-3 Biter -> no reward

-4 Bolter -> "Bolter" -> Run 25% Faster(As fast as the Tendril speed thing)

-5 Stalker-> "Ghost" -> NH can

-6 Beast -> "Mauled" -> When clawing humans, NH has a 5% chance of automatically pouncing the human

-7 Mauler -> "Instinct" -> When clawing humans, NH has a 7% chance of automatically pouncing the human

-8 Juggernaut -> "Seismic Toss" -> During claw attacks, hunter has random chance to trigger Seismic Toss, tendril the human,jump into the air with the victim and slam him to the ground which deals 20 % of their total max health, the skill cannot KO the human but creates shockwave simmilar to ground pound (non upgraded).

-9 Widow Maker -> "Undead Vitality 1" -> Gain +25 Health

-10 Carnivore -> "Undead Vitality 2" -> Gain additional +25 Health

-11 Hunter -> "Undead Vitality 3" -> Gain additional +25 Health

-12 Apex Predator -> "Rupture" -> Hunter's tendrils mutated into spikes and can be useful for damaging players (if they attach to them) from a distance, deals 20 % health as damage and hunter closes in to the target. Works also during attempted pounce, but doesnt work if pounce was succesful.

(Add an additional skill tree, but make this rank very very very hard to get)

-13 Death -> "Complete Horror" Gets every ability in each rank 1-12

 

I kinda think my list is a bit OP... but why not make the NH that one boss that is hard to kill instead of 3-shotting him? :)

 

OR!! 

 

Simply have the NH's choose a class between like 5 (or 10 if Techland can be a bit creative) different classes(all have different NH skins)

 

(All classes w/ SOME abilities to come with it)Please read the Pros and Cons of these abilities

 

BreathingTank - Durability - HP damage is up to 5 hits in a 1v1, 6 hits in a 2v1, 7 hits in a 3v1, 8 hits in a 4v1

(Pros - Instead of UV heal, it has InstantBarrage where it goes into a physical damage immunity for 3 seconds, Cons - Not as fast as a default zombie speed, Tendril reach is reduced by 10%, During IndtantBarrage NH cannot pounce)

 

QuickStream - Speed is as fast as the Tendril Speed Sprint by default

(Pros - Can wall-run like we saw in BtZ Following Trailer, Cons - Spits don't reach as far, GP doesn't have a far effective Knock-Back)

 

VanishShadow - Has cloak for 7 seconds 

(Pros - Can temporarily go into a pot-hole in the street(kind of like a camper) and pounce only 1 survivor from it, Cons - Only moves as fast as default NH, UV gets drained A BIT faster)

 

Ghost - Can liquify its body and walk through only 2 walls every 3 - 5 mins!

(Pros - Tendril speed-launcher is faster((He has to keep up with the humans in SOME way)), Cons - Speed is drastically reduced)

 

TendrilSpree - Body builds up and gets bigger(kind of like a bomber) and instead of exploding, it releases a whole bunch of Tendrils that do not grab, they PUSH all humans around the NH away like 20 meters(In EVERY direction, up, down, next to)

(Pros - The TendrilPush has a big push range((can push anyone that's at least 10 meters or 13 meters around the NH)), Cons - Has a 30 second cooldown((Which is a long time tbh)))

 

CrashDown - Has a move where it jumps far up into the air, and CRASHES down onto the ground releasing a big explosion that removes 50 or 60% of the humans' health if in the 20 meter radius.

(Pros - Has an ability where when he crashes down and explodes, he releases a spit ((Whichever spit is selected during the crashdown)) Cons - He dies after use)

 

Each of these classes has their own "Mutation" moves depending on it's class. But they all have the regular skilltree. ((Each class has a mutation move that is relevant and actually is connected to it's class, for example, Don't give -BreathingTank- an ability that would be better with CrashDown or something))

 

So, which would you guys prefer? The Classes or Ranked Abilities? 

 

 

Pete, would you mind replying to this comment your thoughts of this idea?

Edited by RaceyStorm3124

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ranking systems based on wins is flawed anyway. too easy to win vs friends.

I actually hate the fact that survivors get gold weapons and a better chance of finding gold weapons in game (especially this part)  due to their BTZ rank.

 

This is pure incentive to rank yourself up (vs dummy/friends) to ultimate survivor and stay there. Lose a couple rounds while playing, no problem, jack it back up before your rank goes down. It's easy to maintain ultimate surivior and apex without any skill at all.

 

If Techland want's people to PLAY BTZ then reward people for PARTICIPATING (win or lose) in BTZ matches. Win/oss can up your "rank" but don't tie "rank" to gold weapons, tie matches played to gold weapons. and gold weapon find chance.You can even take away 1 match played every few days so to keep your gold weapon "status" up you have to keep playing BTZ (again if the intention is to promote it).

 

Leave the win/loss for actually matching up skill levels. with no reason to artificially boost it, it should create fun BTZ games.

 

Back to the topic fo this thread, add bonuses tot he NH for rank and everyone will be apex predator, it's easy to jack your rank artificially.

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Don't forget that there's no extra things for the NH when he ranks up, unlike the Humans which get better chances to get gold weapons.

The only thing have an Apex Predator rank means is for the Humans to start recording, humiliate you, and upload it to YouTube.

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ranking systems based on wins is flawed anyway. too easy to win vs friends.

I actually hate the fact that survivors get gold weapons and a better chance of finding gold weapons in game (especially this part)  due to their BTZ rank.

 

This is pure incentive to rank yourself up (vs dummy/friends) to ultimate survivor and stay there. Lose a couple rounds while playing, no problem, jack it back up before your rank goes down. It's easy to maintain ultimate surivior and apex without any skill at all.

 

If Techland want's people to PLAY BTZ then reward people for PARTICIPATING (win or lose) in BTZ matches. Win/oss can up your "rank" but don't tie "rank" to gold weapons, tie matches played to gold weapons. and gold weapon find chance.You can even take away 1 match played every few days so to keep your gold weapon "status" up you have to keep playing BTZ (again if the intention is to promote it).

 

Leave the win/loss for actually matching up skill levels. with no reason to artificially boost it, it should create fun BTZ games.

 

Back to the topic fo this thread, add bonuses tot he NH for rank and everyone will be apex predator, it's easy to jack your rank artificially.

Reece just answered this for you, he said:

Don't forget that there's no extra things for the NH when he ranks up, unlike the Humans which get better chances to get gold weapons.

The only thing have an Apex Predator rank means is for the Humans to start recording, humiliate you, and upload it to YouTube.

 

And he's right. Humans got buggy upgrades, weapon mods, they got all types of good shite. But we've got nothing. :/ Ranking systems aren't flawed. They're better. They express your play style. They help you out in 4v1 fights like guns, top-tier machetes, buggy upgrades and physical upgrades help the hunters. And they could even beat us without have those upgrades. Lol.

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Reece just answered this for you, he said:

Don't forget that there's no extra things for the NH when he ranks up, unlike the Humans which get better chances to get gold weapons.

The only thing have an Apex Predator rank means is for the Humans to start recording, humiliate you, and upload it to YouTube.

 

And he's right. Humans got buggy upgrades, weapon mods, they got all types of good shite. But we've got nothing. :/ Ranking systems aren't flawed. They're better. They express your play style. They help you out in 4v1 fights like guns, top-tier machetes, buggy upgrades and physical upgrades help the hunters. And they could even beat us without have those upgrades. Lol.

 

actually he didn't. A response doesn't always mean a valid answer. If your argument is the NH is too weak then simply buff the NH. Again, my argument is that tying it to RANK in NH (games won) doesn't really matter because you can win all the games you want (2 friends can fight each other, win 50% of the matches each, and rank up to Ult Sur and Apex respectively).

 

Survivors get things for playing that help them in the real game, and that's fine (again based on participation, not rank). Nothing Recee said makes an argument for granting abilities at NH ranks over granting those abilities in general. The only people you hurt by granting them over ranks is the newbie NH. You can not balance the NH VS survivor if you HAVE to be APEX to kill anything (get the bonus). Again, this will only lead to  everyone being Apex artificially and then prevent actual skill matching between hunters and survivors. To have good skill matching that "skill" rank needs to carry ZERO incentives to increase it. No bonuses, etc. This rank should be free of all that.

 

Who cares if NH gets anything for the rank (they get it for levels), you can't take it into the real game. Once you have "everything" under this systems you're done anyway, no incentive to play once you are Apex... (and losing  means you LOSE your buffs, so disincentive to play 2v1, 3v1, 4v1).

 

Play the NH because it's fun... if it's not fun, no reward will make it fun.

Edited by Shockwave

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You can not balance the NH VS survivor if you HAVE to be APEX to kill anything (get the bonus). Again, this will only lead to  everyone being Apex artificially and then prevent actual skill matching between hunters and survivors. To have good skill matching that "skill" rank needs to carry ZERO incentives to increase it. No bonuses, etc. This rank should be free of all that.

 

 

This is it at its very basic level, nothing can be tied to rank or will lead to the above, must be tied to XP otherwise zero skill.

 

The only thing that would be fair is a small usable buff that you can execute when ever like once hit the XP requirements during a match and cant be used outside of the current match, similar to the Night hunter booster potion for humans but with out storing it so no duping can occur or excessive use etc. This is how the Human potions, meds and flares should work in my opinion to for BTZ.

Edited by smc

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Again, this will only lead to  everyone being Apex artificially and then prevent actual skill matching between hunters and survivors. To have good skill matching that "skill" rank needs to carry ZERO incentives to increase it. No bonuses, etc. This rank should be free of all that.

 

You talk about skill when humans have almost none. A human that learns how to use 4 things: UV(including flares),dodge, SS, and grapple = Pro. And I'm being honest. That's not skill. No one understands the fact that humans work MUCH LESS than we do just to get a kill.

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You talk about skill when humans have almost none. A human that learns how to use 4 things: UV(including flares),dodge, SS, and grapple = Pro. And I'm being honest. That's not skill. No one understands the fact that humans work MUCH LESS than we do just to get a kill.

Is this some kind of joke or are you just a massive troll? Unless you play 4v1s exclusively, then you don't know what you're talking about. Some of the Hunters I've encountered have required me to be so painstakingly precise that it almost makes the game no fun.

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Is this some kind of joke or are you just a massive troll? Unless you play 4v1s exclusively, then you don't know what you're talking about. Some of the Hunters I've encountered have required me to be so painstakingly precise that it almost makes the game no fun.

Of course...the unoriginal "troll" question to portray the amount of "absurdness" in a statement. And you talk about 4v1 and how hunters are, I never said Hunters have no skill. Are you trolling? If you read my comment again, you'd know my point was, humans can become a pro MUCH faster than a NH can because of the amount of the resources they have. Within a few days, they're pro. Hunters take a little over a week(To be so freaking precise about everything) or even a few weeks of frustration to become a pro.

Edited by RaceyStorm3124

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Ahh yes I forgot.

It does take a lot of skill as Humans to spam SS and UV.

Don't forget when Humans switch abilities it gives them an option to INSTANTLY equip their UV light, even while using other abilities like grappling hook.

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In that case neither of you should ever lose as Survivors. Is that week long estimate something you did research on? So it must take half that time to become "pro" as a Survivor right? Both sides have to practice to become better and both sides can take a while based on the player. I feel like this thread is more about complaining than anything else...

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humans can become a pro MUCH faster than a NH can because of the amount of the resources they have. Within a few days, they're pro. Hunters take a little over a week(To be so freaking precise about everything) or even a few weeks of frustration to become a pro.

 

It really does all go back to the damage duping has done and still does to this mode, on both sides of the fight.

 

On one hand, it takes a Hunter a disturbing amount of time to Max out his mutations/skills (with no boosting and just general play, I'm still leveling my Mutation 3 after all this time), whereas Humans dupe Survivor packages and level up in minutes.

 

The "resources" Humans have are also artificial. Playing the occasional match as the Human, I have to go back to Infamy Bridge and load up on Medkits every now and then. I have over 100 regular Flares, but no Zaids, because those materials go to Medkits. And no camo potions, because they take 30 Herbs to craft. But I still see people using 6-7 of them in one match.

 

Things in this game take time to farm and craft to keep things balanced. That balance goes out the window when infinite inventories are allowed. Techland has done a lot to make them game manageable, but there will always be a "South Side" to the balance, because 80% of the Ultimate Survivors I meet have inventories of 800,000 (not even exaggerating) of all the items - from potions to weapons to long-range explosives - that they need.

 

On the other hand, the game has been altered with these cheaters in mind, so it punishes players who don't cheat. Which sucks to hear from their mouths, because as a NH I understand how annoying it is to be the minority in a game plagued with others bent on ruining the experience.

 

I wouldn't say it takes "no skill" to be a good Human. Item management/learning the maps takes time to master. I rarely play the Humans and I'm not all that spectacular at it. But is everything Humans need to excel available to them on Day 1? Absolutely. The work it takes to reach max-level and have all the abilities available, between Humans and NHs, is abysmally different.

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And to think all of this could have been avoided if they checked the code then fixed duping.

But to be honest people would find other ways, they always do.

It's not even that, once people start duping it's done. Techland isn't going to dig into anyone's inventories.

 

All of this could have been avoided if this was a stand alone mode. Inventory management, lobbies, single player patches not affecting multiplayer gameplay, possibilities for additional game modes. Everything would be fixed.

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And to think all of this could have been avoided if they checked the code then fixed duping.

But to be honest people would find other ways, they always do.

It's not even that, once people start duping it's done. Techland isn't going to dig into anyone's inventories.

 

All of this could have been avoided if this was a stand alone mode. Inventory management, lobbies, single player patches not affecting multiplayer gameplay, possibilities for additional game modes. Everything would be fixed.

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And to think all of this could have been avoided if they checked the code then fixed duping.

But to be honest people would find other ways, they always do.

 

Yea, that second part hits home. In this type of game, where weapons can be dropped/traded, there's going to be duping. It's just inevitable that someone will find some way to mess up the saved game-states, dump all their items on the ground, and leave matches with their inventories intact.

 

It's not so much a matter of preventing it as it is discouraging its practice. Banning would have really helped the BtZ mode be free of cheaters on console (PC is a whole separate ballgame), but that was never applied, and it went rampant as a result. No consequences = no reason to stop for a majority of these people.

 

It's not even that, once people start duping it's done. Techland isn't going to dig into anyone's inventories.

 

All of this could have been avoided if this was a stand alone mode. Inventory management, lobbies, single player patches not affecting multiplayer gameplay, possibilities for additional game modes. Everything would be fixed.

 

And rightfully so, digging out duped items would have been a huge power-play on their part that would never have gone over well. Duping doesn't hurt the Campaign mode at all, and that's the game's bread-and-butter. As much as I love/play it, BtZ is a side-mode. They won't and shouldn't risk messing up single-player (which is amazingly perfect, IMO) to help the smaller PVP crowd.

 

Hopefully Dying Light 2 has BtZ as a standalone mode. The way it was implemented in this game was excellent, honestly, but duping and other mitigating factors really do kind of mess up the PVP aspect (people forgetting the mode is on, poor/very long host connection rates, joining a match in which a Hunter has already joined, etc.)

 

I'm throwing up in my mouth a little just typing this, but... it could be similar to the layout of Evolve's multiplayer, in which a screen shows both the NH and 1-4 Humans popping into the match, with a random map (Old Town, Slums, Countryside) being chosen for the battlefield.

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It's not even that, once people start duping it's done. Techland isn't going to dig into anyone's inventories.

 

All of this could have been avoided if this was a stand alone mode. Inventory management, lobbies, single player patches not affecting multiplayer gameplay, possibilities for additional game modes. Everything would be fixed.

Who says they got to snoop? They really don't. Techland could simply add a new limit number of how many items someone can hold at once and you could only have - at max - two full stacks. Anyone with any more of these stacks or any more of these item limits could just be temporarily banned with their duped resources gone(Medkits, herbs, secondary weapons, ect). It's all something that could be fixed right now.

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Who says they got to snoop? They really don't. Techland could simply add a new limit number of how many items someone can hold at once and you could only have - at max - two full stacks. Anyone with any more of these stacks or any more of these item limits could just be temporarily banned with their duped resources gone(Medkits, herbs, secondary weapons, ect). It's all something that could be fixed right now.

Do

you play on console or PC?

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Who says they got to snoop? They really don't. Techland could simply add a new limit number of how many items someone can hold at once and you could only have - at max - two full stacks. Anyone with any more of these stacks or any more of these item limits could just be temporarily banned with their duped resources gone(Medkits, herbs, secondary weapons, ect). It's all something that could be fixed right now.

That's easy enough to suggest but no one here has any idea how difficult it would be to implement and whether or not that will open up a whole new set of issues in single player mode.

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That's easy enough to suggest but no one here has any idea how difficult it would be to implement and whether or not that will open up a whole new set of issues in single player mode.

Only issue is there would be a lot of temp banned accounts. xD And single player isn't all that different than multiplayer. It's single player... with people.. xD So I don't think much of anything will happen. Lol.

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