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Btz Imbalance Fix

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Hi, ill open yet another discussion on how to make BTZ more playable for the NH.

 

Ill start by saying that I am apex/survivor and played alot on both sides. There is indeed a strong imbalance in this mode that I think could be fixed with a single minor tweak.

 

-Delete BOTH Howl (NH) and survivors sense (Cranes).

 

Let mè explain: Suppressing both skills will make the mode more like it was advertised back then. More about stealth then call of duty where you can see players through wall which makes it completely retarded since the hunter becomes the hunted. Because YES, anyone who played the mode knows that it is impossible to plan a strategy when survivors knows exactly where the hunter is and vice-versa.

 

-Only keep the warning sound (something is not right) when the hunter is near so it balances with NH night vision.

 

These simple fixes WILL make the game much more fun and scary to play than it is now.

 

P.S. Techland stated that the win/lose ratio is 50% for both sides. NOPE unless you fight newbs, there is no way an experienced NH will win over a Crane that knows qmwhat hes doing.

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This sounds like a fair compromise. However, I think it is funny that some of the main complaints of imbalances were the regen times of spits, shields, and respawn. All the devs needed to do was to tweak these times in order to help balance the imbalances - to a slight degree. However, the devs decided to implement the rubber band system instead and threw everything off. It would have been less problematic and much simpler to just adjust the regen times of the spits, shields, etc. than to implement the rubber band system.  

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My opinion is that the timer of these skills wont change anything, a skilled survivor that can skip 2 spits will skip 10 without any problem.

 

What I suggest if my previous suggestion gets ignored is more health to the NH. A single mistake from the NH equal death 100% sure (missed GP).

 

What else could help? EQUAL damage for both parties. A 1v1 claw vs melee weapon should mea death for both players.

 

So here we have 3 solutions that could fix the mode. I hope devs test this.

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Hi, ill open yet another discussion on how to make BTZ more playable for the NH.

 

Ill start by saying that I am apex/survivor and played alot on both sides. There is indeed a strong imbalance in this mode that I think could be fixed with a single minor tweak.

 

-Delete BOTH Howl (NH) and survivors sense (Cranes).

 

Let mè explain: Suppressing both skills will make the mode more like it was advertised back then. More about stealth then call of duty where you can see players through wall which makes it completely retarded since the hunter becomes the hunted. Because YES, anyone who played the mode knows that it is impossible to plan a strategy when survivors knows exactly where the hunter is and vice-versa.

 

-Only keep the warning sound (something is not right) when the hunter is near so it balances with NH night vision.

 

These simple fixes WILL make the game much more fun and scary to play than it is now.

 

P.S. Techland stated that the win/lose ratio is 50% for both sides. NOPE unless you fight newbs, there is no way an experienced NH will win over a Crane that knows qmwhat hes doing.

The win/lose ratio is not 50/50, it's very much in favour of the hunter.

 

The overall win rate is not 50-50. It is very much in the Hunters favour. It is closer to 50-50 in a 1v1 scenario between players in the upper pool (The Hunter is still winning the majority of games though). 3v1 and 4v1 higher level pools are still very much in the Survivors favour. We have tweaked a few things and have gotten rid of the nest headshot glitch with the next patch. After the patch ships (on consoles... which will be very soon) we will continue to monitor the win rates and make adjustments as needed when we have more data.

Edited by bjoernsen80

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^ I dont want to hate on your comment but it is completely wrong. The only time it gets easier for NH are when 3+ players play as survivor since you have a greater chance of intermediate players. Otherwise you have NO chance.

 

If you dont believe me and you play PS4, add me QCannihilatorQC, ill play as survivor and you try to win as a NH, I garanty a 100% win for me. I dont want to brag, its just what it is, survivors have the uppet end

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My opinion is that the timer of these skills wont change anything, a skilled survivor that can skip 2 spits will skip 10 without any problem.

 

What I suggest if my previous suggestion gets ignored is more health to the NH. A single mistake from the NH equal death 100% sure (missed GP).

 

What else could help? EQUAL damage for both parties. A 1v1 claw vs melee weapon should mea death for both players.

 

So here we have 3 solutions that could fix the mode. I hope devs test this.

 

 

I hear what you are saying, but one of the biggest grievances WAS the timers. Since you are / were talking about ways to further balance the game, then the timers would have been a good place to start. Case in point, the hunter uses all of his spits and shields going against a high ranking survivor in 1V1 and has to wait up to 90 seconds to regain his defenses. Therefore, the hunter is now crippled and a walking target since he no longer has any defenses, while the survivor can still defend themselves just fine - this in essence helps create a primary imbalance within the game right off the bat. Your original post mentioned the "easiness" to implement your suggestions / ideas. I feel the same way about the timers, it's an easy fix and would have taken less time to implement than the rubber band welfare system. 

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I hear what you are saying, but one of the biggest grievances WAS the timers. Since you are / were talking about ways to further balance the game, then the timers would have been a good place to start. Case in point, the hunter uses all of his spits and shields going against a high ranking survivor in 1V1 and has to wait up to 90 seconds to regain his defenses. Therefore, the hunter is now crippled and a walking target since he no longer has any defenses, while the survivor can still defend themselves just fine - this in essence helps create a primary imbalance within the game right off the bat. Your original post mentioned the "easiness" to implement your suggestions / ideas. I feel the same way about the timers, it's an easy fix and would have taken less time to implement than the rubber band welfare system.

I do understand your point, but then again, I dont believe that a timer for spits (maybe not for UV heal) is the way to go. They are not an issue against skilled survivors since they can easily skip them anyways. There truely is NO differences between 1 spit every minutes and 1 spit every 10 seconds.

 

Now what could work is no timer at all, maybe 25 of each spits per game? That allows the spam of spits making it possible to hit a constantly moving target.

 

I still believe that without the survivors sense and howl, the mode woukd be much more balanced.

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I do understand your point, but then again, I dont believe that a timer for spits (maybe not for UV heal) is the way to go. They are not an issue against skilled survivors since they can easily skip them anyways. There truely is NO differences between 1 spit every minutes and 1 spit every 10 seconds.

 

Now what could work is no timer at all, maybe 25 of each spits per game? That allows the spam of spits making it possible to hit a constantly moving target.

 

I still believe that without the survivors sense and howl, the mode woukd be much more balanced.

 

I fundamentally agree with your idea in regards to the survivor sense and howl being negated to add balance in the game. Would this solve a lot of issues right off the bat? Sure! It would add a new depth of suspense that is sadly lacking in the current version of the game. From what I've read from other users, there are a TON of great ideas coming from the community. Do I think any of them have a chance at being implemented via the devs? Slim to none most likely - which is kind of sad really considering BTZ is desperately needing a reworking makeover. 

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I fundamentally agree with your idea in regards to the survivor sense and howl being negated to add balance in the game. Would this solve a lot of issues right off the bat? Sure! It would add a new depth of suspense that is sadly lacking in the current version of the game. From what I've read from other users, there are a TON of great ideas coming from the community. Do I think any of them have a chance at being implemented via the devs? Slim to none most likely - which is kind of sad really considering BTZ is desperately needing a reworking makeover.

Exactly, I also dobt believe anything will be done about it unless a tremendous amount of players comments, support and even share to other social medias around.

 

Tbh Im not even sure this forum gets looked at considering the low amount of threads. I mean, its not THAT much of a problem for me, ill keep playing as a survivor and win Gold weapons :P

 

P.S: Why not make it so NH gets reward that transfer to the main character?

 

Have a good day sir, add me on PS4 if you want

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^ I dont want to hate on your comment but it is completely wrong. The only time it gets easier for NH are when 3+ players play as survivor since you have a greater chance of intermediate players. Otherwise you have NO chance.

 

If you dont believe me and you play PS4, add me QCannihilatorQC, ill play as survivor and you try to win as a NH, I garanty a 100% win for me. I dont want to brag, its just what it is, survivors have the uppet end

This Comment/Quote hasn't come out of my mind it was an official statement. And i think the officials have to know it better then me or you.

And I repeat what i said in other Threads a lot of times. if you're that good as survivor i would please you to record some matches and link them in this forum because this forum has a huge lack of survivor stuff.

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This Comment/Quote hasn't come out of my mind it was an official statement. And i think the officials have to know it better then me or you.

And I repeat what i said in other Threads a lot of times. if you're that good as survivor i would please you to record some matches and link them in this forum because this forum has a huge lack of survivor stuff.

Let me start, you are getting off topic, I dont have anything to prove, if you want a demo, there is nothing better than a real 1v1.

 

Try it for yourself man, do you really ever lose 50% of the time as a survivor? If yes, you are a small minority, thats it.

 

Back on topic, what do you think of the removal of superman sense? Do you think it would be a good change to the mode?

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Hi, ill open yet another discussion on how to make BTZ more playable for the NH.

 

Ill start by saying that I am apex/survivor and played alot on both sides. There is indeed a strong imbalance in this mode that I think could be fixed with a single minor tweak.

 

-Delete BOTH Howl (NH) and survivors sense (Cranes).

 

Let mè explain: Suppressing both skills will make the mode more like it was advertised back then. More about stealth then call of duty where you can see players through wall which makes it completely retarded since the hunter becomes the hunted. Because YES, anyone who played the mode knows that it is impossible to plan a strategy when survivors knows exactly where the hunter is and vice-versa.

 

-Only keep the warning sound (something is not right) when the hunter is near so it balances with NH night vision.

 

These simple fixes WILL make the game much more fun and scary to play than it is now.

 

P.S. Techland stated that the win/lose ratio is 50% for both sides. NOPE unless you fight newbs, there is no way an experienced NH will win over a Crane that knows qmwhat hes doing.

I was thinking this. But your plan won't work, here's why:

 

Harran city is waaaaay too big. We'd waste 10-20 mins looking for humans. Sure, we could wait at nest, but we're supposed to stop them from getting there altogether.

 

 But instead, I have a better proposal.

 

- Remove survivor sense and not NH howl(Hear me out!)

 

Because When the NH howls, the humans get a direction(an arrow) of where the howl came from on the minimap. Making us use howl tactfully and not just abuse it, and also having the humans actually work as a team to avoid the NH. 

 

- Another thing to fix it: In a 1v1 with NH, make the human be completely dominated by the NH.(Hear me out!)

 

I say this because if 1 person can stand his ground w/ the NH and possibly even win while his team goes after nest... kind of unfair... but with the NH able to beat them easily in a 1v1, it'd keep the humans at bay knowing they'd most likely lose, and the NH won't also go all in on them since they're in a team. Get it? This way, the humans have to use strategy and tactics to fend us off and get to nest, and we have to use strategy and tactics to break humans up/get them before they reach nest. This way, humans won't just rambo the NH....and win. 

 

With these two things, it'd make BtZ as it was advertised. A horror game mode where it's actually scary/suspenseful, both sides equally use tactics and strategy, and is actually fun. 

 

Forget the people who wants BtZ as it is already. They like the imbalance cause they hate losing. They don't want a challenge. 

Edited by RaceyStorm3124

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I was thinking this. But your plan won't work, here's why:

 

Harran city is waaaaay too big. We'd waste 10-20 mins looking for humans. Sure, we could wait at nest, but we're supposed to stop them from getting there altogether.

 

I don't believe this scenario would play out as such - especially since there are existing timers that would end the match if either the humans or hunter wouldn't make contact with each other.  Therefore, a match could not go for 10+ minutes without interaction between players.  All-in-all, this would either FORCE the hunters and humans to interact to avoid the automatic win for the hunter OR the humans would forfeit the match if they decided to hide it out since the hunter would not be able to find them that easily anymore. 

 

 But instead, I have a better proposal.

 

- Remove survivor sense and not NH howl(Hear me out!)

 

Because When the NH howls, the humans get a direction(an arrow) of where the howl came from on the minimap. Making us use howl tactfully and not just abuse it, and also having the humans actually work as a team to avoid the NH. 

 

I like this idea a little more than getting rid of the howl and survivor sense entirely - it seems to be a better balance between the two ideas.  

 

- Another thing to fix it: In a 1v1 with NH, make the human be completely dominated by the NH.(Hear me out!)

 

I say this because if 1 person can stand his ground w/ the NH and possibly even win while his team goes after nest... kind of unfair... but with the NH able to beat them easily in a 1v1, it'd keep the humans at bay knowing they'd most likely lose, and the NH won't also go all in on them since they're in a team. Get it? This way, the humans have to use strategy and tactics to fend us off and get to nest, and we have to use strategy and tactics to break humans up/get them before they reach nest. This way, humans won't just rambo the NH....and win. 

 

With these two things, it'd make BtZ as it was advertised. A horror game mode where it's actually scary/suspenseful, both sides equally use tactics and strategy, and is actually fun. 

 

Forget the people who wants BtZ as it is already. They like the imbalance cause they hate losing. They don't want a challenge. 

 

 

Some good ideas. I highlighted my thoughts in purple.

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I like your idea, maybe mark the last position of the howl on the minimap? BUT deleting both sides senses would make the game much more fun and after all, humans have a goal to destroy nets or then they lose. Because I feel that keeping howl would just make the NH too OP.

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I like your idea, maybe mark the last position of the howl on the minimap? BUT deleting both sides senses would make the game much more fun and after all, humans have a goal to destroy nets or then they lose. Because I feel that keeping howl would just make the NH too OP.

-_- how is he OP if the humans will get a direction of where he is?

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-Delete BOTH Howl (NH) and survivors sense (Cranes).

 

Let mè explain: Suppressing both skills will make the mode more like it was advertised back then. More about stealth then call of duty where you can see players through wall which makes it completely retarded since the hunter becomes the hunted. Because YES, anyone who played the mode knows that it is impossible to plan a strategy when survivors knows exactly where the hunter is and vice-versa.

 

If you don't want want Survivor sence and Howl you can OFF HUD in game options :D.

Playing with disabled HUD in invasion mode is really hard.

 

No health bar (so you don't how much HP you have). No Shield/Grapple Hook/UV Flashlight/Flares/ NHBooster/NH Spits etc. icons (so you don't know when you can use it all). No ammo icons in ranged weapons. No Human life icons and nest destroyed. No mini-map (so you can only see NH with "survivor sence wave" or hear him ~ Like Non-stop survivor sense spit). You don't know where is other human players ( ;-; ), and more.

 

Have Fun playing with disabled HUD =)

Edited by Tochotto

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Why not just put some limitations on the survivors. Maybe tone down the UV light a bit, range, intensity what have you, and limit the number of flares thrown? Say maybe 15 to 20 flares a game. Period. Thus is a fact, every game that I play, almost every player throws 30 plus flares. What would be wrong with that??

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I see some interesting ideas here, and I've got one as well: Instead of survivor sense once, and then being able to see the hunter for a while. A survivor sense with a cool-down timer, which shows the last location of the Night Hunter when the Night Hunter is in range of the survivor sense of course.

And perhaps the same for the Night Hunter.

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We need to all agree on something so we cab put pressure on devs. Right now, its no feseable because too many players have too many different opinions on that topic.

I agree. What should they be? May as well get it started.

-_- how is he OP if the humans will get a direction of where he is?

In regards to the NH, if you think about it, really, isn't the NH in a rudimentary sense supposed to be OP? Maybe not god like, but it seems to me he should be. I mean he's a freak of nature! Look at em. You would expect something like that to be OP. No??

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We need to all agree on something so we cab put pressure on devs. Right now, its no feseable because too many players have too many different opinions on that topic.

I don't think that's a bad thing, though. Varying opinions means the game isn't necessarily unbalanced, but possibly just two sides feeling rightful vehemence toward one another.

 

My big concern with this mode has always been glitches, exploits, etc. Yes, NHs still have to deal with Duping, but 90% of the aspects flat-out preventing a fair fight have been alleviated in our favor. From a skill standpoint, I believe the game's relatively balanced as-is.

 

The Devs remind us regularly that the Night Hunter wins more games than Humans do. I'm sure there are a lot of mitigating circumstances that lead to this, but overall, we're winning against Humans more than we're losing. We no longer have to enter a game and prepare for absurd scenarios like, "Will the Human play?" "Will he be under the map/behind a wall forever?" "Will he use a OHKO exploit?" I think that's a good thing, albeit a thing we should never had had to deal with in the first place.

 

It took a while, but those barriers are gone. There are still a few exploits around, but nothing as game-ending as the complete inability to play the mode.

 

Overall, I believe we're as close as we've ever been to the place we should have been at launch - skill Vs. skill. Yes, Humans can Flam and Dodge and hop with impunity, but NHs have been given the tools necessary to fight through many of the adversities put before us.

 

Rather than discussing what the men behind the curtain can do to pad our experiences, we should be asking the real question: "What can I, as a player, do differently to break through the barriers X, Y, and Z?"

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I don't think that's a bad thing, though. Varying opinions means the game isn't necessarily unbalanced, but possibly just two sides feeling rightful vehemence toward one another.

 

My big concern with this mode has always been glitches, exploits, etc. Yes, NHs still have to deal with Duping, but 90% of the aspects flat-out preventing a fair fight have been alleviated in our favor. From a skill standpoint, I believe the game's relatively balanced as-is.

 

The Devs remind us regularly that the Night Hunter wins more games than Humans do. I'm sure there are a lot of mitigating circumstances that lead to this, but overall, we're winning against Humans more than we're losing. We no longer have to enter a game and prepare for absurd scenarios like, "Will the Human play?" "Will he be under the map/behind a wall forever?" "Will he use a OHKO exploit?" I think that's a good thing, albeit a thing we should never had had to deal with in the first place.

 

It took a while, but those barriers are gone. There are still a few exploits around, but nothing as game-ending as the complete inability to play the mode.

 

Overall, I believe we're as close as we've ever been to the place we should have been at launch - skill Vs. skill. Yes, Humans can Flam and Dodge and hop with impunity, but NHs have been given the tools necessary to fight through many of the adversities put before us.

 

Rather than discussing what the men behind the curtain can do to pad our experiences, we should be asking the real question: "What can I, as a player, do differently to break through the barriers X, Y, and Z?"

Devs ARE wrong on this one. Equally skilled players will still end up having NH losing because its how it is. I have a friend of mine that will always lose as a NH against me, oddly I will always lose to him as a NH.

 

I understand that we are much closer to what the game should be than a few months ago but something has to be done.

 

I suggest:

 

1. Removal of survival sense and howl alltogether

 

2. Major buff to spits

 

3. Tackle CANT be skipped to match dropkick and groind pound penality reduced.

 

4.Survivors sense marking the last hunter's position.

 

 

I personally vote for 1. but any would be acceptable

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Why is nothing being suggested to something so simple as flares per match. Each survivor gets a set number of flares per match. You only use em when you need em. Once you throw all your allowed for that match, guess what, should've been more conservative. I just played a match 3v1, each survivor threw 80 plus flares. That's over 240 flares for that match. That's unbalanced. How I won, it's a miracle.

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