BlankSlate

So... Why Is Duping Still A Thing In This Game?

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I visit other forums now and then and saw a player suggest to other human players to just "dupe survivor packages" to max out their survivor rank.

 

Ignoring all the other ridiculous advantages that duping gives human players in BtZ, why should humans get to rank up in seconds while it takes the hunter weeks of continuous playing to max out?

 

I just don't get why this isnt a higher priority. Why is the progression system, among other things, allowed to be so heavily unbalanced?

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So does that really hurt you that much? Invasions reset the damage of weapons and a grey weapon is as good as a gold weapon and about the duped items i understand when i play a survivor with duped flares and all because it is nearly impossible to fight hunters without items and weapons so i dont care when my opponents dupe their weapons

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Duplication has many negative effects on the btz mode. Originally, survivors need to scavenge for parts and craft limited amount of important items like flares and medkit before doing invasion. So they need to use these items wisely (especially flares) due to the small amount that they carried. Some even went on without carrying flares. In this situation, both hunter and survivors have a fair chance of winning the game, plus the learning curve is pretty much balance since the start. Both will gradually improve their play (at about the same rate i believe) without 1 side having tremendous advantage over the other.  

 

But when the duplication factor is included, survivors start to spam flares and medkit and new hunters can't compete with that (there are other imbalance issue but let us focus on the impact of duplication here). Survivors could play for longer times and improve their skills and strategy faster than what the masses of hunter players can do. This has left the hunters with a steep learning curve as they struggle to fight the more experience survivors which resulted into frustration and they leaving the btz mode.

 

Apart from that yeah there are multiple issues regarding the game's balance that are being continuously address by the community (some if not most of the problems have been/ are being taken care of albeit they may not be exactly being resolved as what we asked for- hey at least the dev is doing something about it). The most important thing here is to voice out any problems that we encounter in the game and actively supporting relevant ideas and improvement posted in the forum.

 

Cheers :)  

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I feel like certain duped items don't have a huge affect on the game. Someone could spend an entire year legitimately farming flares and play one BtZ match similar to the duped matches today. It would actually take longer to find matches because a majority of survivors wouldn't feel comfortable playing if they didn't have an inexhaustible supply of items. 

 

Where I think duping is a problem is with medkits and potions. Potions are specific rewards you get for winning against the night hunter and nowhere else. After one game you should not have an infinite amount and abuse the bonuses every match afterwards. Medkits skew every confrontation because of insta-heal. If it was intended for them to have that many medkits then the devs wouldn't have made it so you get a free medkit after every death (if you have none I think).

 

 

EDIT: Sorry when I said potions I meant night hunter potions. Didn't realize I forgot to specificy.

Edited by jcks

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This has been said b4 and will be said again: apart from the survival narrative die hard fans, not many folks play BtZ to have to prepare for it via farming. People want to burn time and have fun.

 

Because the hunter has no such issues with health always regenerating after some time, inventory subject to cooldowns, and hunters cannot trade items with other hunters, the issue does not exist on hunter side outside of people who decide to hack. Now I am not suggesting to strip Kyle of his inventory in hunter fashion, but to give the regular BtZ player a bit of support where it is needed, which already occurs to some extent: survivors receive extra flairs and weapons automatically during/after Pvp. Extend this type of support to more of the inventory, and there will be less duping.

 

Also, there are folks out there that play the game so well/much as hunter, that most survivors wouldn't survive a match, even with quasi-infinite heal via medkits as it is now, AND using known exploits. Because it's easy to bash cheaters and understandable, one must also take into account 2 facts: 

 

- It takes time and skill to master some exploits to the extent that they confer advantage in fast, high paced play

- Techland has been inactive for considerable time in this area; not taking a clear, robust position on online cheating (e.g. cultivating PvP playing culture, giving people a sense of community that would disincentivize nasty online behavior, encouraging play with both sides etc.), neither actively discouraging or encouraging it... so that everybody is running around and trumpeting their interpretation of how the game should be played. But who knows for sure, when this is the unclear policy and people get used to it?

 

With this as the background, yes, I do take peoples' medkits as a survivor even if I don't know whether they have duped or not when they're offered as I tend to only return to the game for BtZ these days; and faced with a high level hunter the gloves come off and I can loose to these people any day, even if use some exploit to hack nests faster. In fact, in those cases where the hunter really excels, the game quality hinges on that I use them because only then can I shoot for an interesting fight. That said, such matches where the gloves fully come off are rather rare and in most matches, a fair and interesting match can occur without such measures. All this nonsense around duping would be superfluous with a handicap system, more inventory control, clarity on cheating and cultivating simple good will/faith within the community.

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A max ranked survivor doesn't get as much benefit as a max ranked hunter.  and as for duping items a majority of that doesn't impact BTZ in a meaningful way.  And While I can agree the harshness of a hunter mutating is pretty big hunters without skills would always be under powered wether or not duping existed.  You essentially have unlimited flares and medkits when playing BTZ anyway as if you have none the game gives you some on respawn.

 

And all weapons do basically the same damage to you and the nests.  So duping honestly doesn't hurt BTZ very much.  And single player/coop is just that.  I'm not saying duping should exist in games.  But it's not a problem in the game either.  people who dupe and don't play BTZ ruin their own experience.  and someone who dupes and plays BTZ vs someone who doesn't and plays BTZ are basically on the same footing.

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I had a match today against a level 250 legend survivor. His weapons did a lot of damage because of the legendary perks. Also he liked to shoot me once and then hit once with a heavy weapon and I was dead. Imagine that with 4 players. Also the UV light is still ridiculous so I was constantly being drained of energy so finishing me off was quite easy. I just mutated too so this was when my NH was level 5. Fun

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I had a match today against a level 250 legend survivor. His weapons did a lot of damage because of the legendary perks. Also he liked to shoot me once and then hit once with a heavy weapon and I was dead. Imagine that with 4 players. Also the UV light is still ridiculous so I was constantly being drained of energy so finishing me off was quite easy. I just mutated too so this was when my NH was level 5. Fun

Is this possible to reach 250lvl within two days?

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What about the others that never try or want to dupe this item? They need to level up the normal way then, is it fair? 

 

Lets push for a legend level reset on all the platforms back to 0 and having all relief supplies in the inventories and stashes removed.

 

It's not impossible to level up, u have nightmare mode or/ and can play in the night time to multiply the exp. u gain. Plus, the update was only recently released by Techland so i doubt players can get so high with their levels if they play the normal way (without using duped supplies). I don't mind mine being reset at all. Most that will have problem with this are those that cheated or exploited the dupe glitch i reckon. 

 

Seriously, the legend feature is a great design by techland and it shouldn't be ruined like this. It's meant for those who really enjoy the game as it can last them for quite sometimes. 

 

Just a suggestion  

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I had a match today against a level 250 legend survivor. His weapons did a lot of damage because of the legendary perks. Also he liked to shoot me once and then hit once with a heavy weapon and I was dead. Imagine that with 4 players. Also the UV light is still ridiculous so I was constantly being drained of energy so finishing me off was quite easy. I just mutated too so this was when my NH was level 5. Fun

 

He killed you because you are lvl 5 and unexperienced not because of his 250 legendary Levels.... Weapon Damage on the nighthunter is still scaled!

 

@ EnlightenMe

Seriously... i don't want a reset at all, i played my arse off to get to Legendary rank 45 so far and i don't want to get this taken away again. I don't care if other people have rank 250. that's their own problem

Edited by bjoernsen80

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He killed you because you are lvl 5 and unexperienced not because of his 250 legendary Levels.... Weapon Damage on the nighthunter is still scaled!

 

@ EnlightenMe

Seriously... i don't want a reset at all, i played my arse off to get to Legendary rank 45 so far and i don't want to get this taken away again. I don't care if other people have rank 250. that's their own problem

Like I said I just mutated, referring to how the game matched me to someone like that. Maybe he was just really good and headshotted me every time while I was flying!

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Like I said I just mutated, referring to how the game matched me to someone like that. Maybe he was just really good and headshotted me every time while I was flying!

 

Sure that he shot you and didn't throw his weapon after you ?

It takes 1 thrown weapon and 1 Slash to kill a nighthunter

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It's too late to reset anything. There are people who worked for their current levels and it would be unfair to reset them and invalidate all those hours of playtime. Techland would have a legion of angry gamers and a PR nightmare at their doorstep if they reset legendary levels now.

Agreed. I'm as anti-dupe as the next guy, but diving into players' inventories and resetting everyone for these players' misdeeds isn't a good solution.

 

Duping isn't even that bad if you're in single player - it doesn't create a negative experience for anyone else. Bringing it into PVP is the problem, but that's only half (maybe 2/5) the game, and lots of people don't even play BtZ.

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I think what they could do is fix it so stacks of items that go past their normal limit with these dupes, like say... over 9000, are made appropriately a stack of 99 items, so legit players keep their hard earned items and the dupers are

to the fold of people actually playing the mode in the spirit it was originally intended.

 

...But it's probably not worth it. Dupes are so ubiquitous in games like this. The recent patch to address the main ones were bypassed within hours of it going live. And even if they locked it down completely, people would just trade and revert to backup saves on the cloud to dupe stacks. And it might be hard to do something like fix stacks without messing up peoples inventorys and save files, so it's better to just leave it, maybe. Adding cooldowns to item usage such as the Cloak potion was a step in the right direction. If there's more balance fixes focusing on survivors maybe that side of it can be improved on carefully by the BTZ devs, relating to medkits usage exclusively in BTZ for instance, and the people who don't play BTZ and like having duped items can enjoy it their way.

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I think what they could do is fix it so stacks of items that go past their normal limit with these dupes, like say... over 9000

 

The obvious solution here is that, if a player's inventory goes over 9,000 of an item, a short clip of Vegeta screaming into his scouter appears on the screen. Upon returning to the inventory, the item is now at 1. B)

 

...But it's probably not worth it. Dupes are so ubiquitous in games like this. The recent patch to address the main ones were bypassed within hours of it going live. And even if they locked it down completely, people would just trade and revert to backup saves on the cloud to dupe stacks. And it might be hard to do something like fix stacks without messing up peoples inventorys and save files, so it's better to just leave it, maybe. Adding cooldowns to item usage such as the Cloak potion was a step in the right direction. If there's more balance fixes focusing on survivors maybe that side of it can be improved on carefully by the BTZ devs, relating to medkits usage exclusively in BTZ for instance, and the people who don't play BTZ and like having duped items can enjoy it their way.

 

Agreed. It's very much like Borderlands. Half the fun of that game is getting a good gun, flying into other players' games, and duping your whole stash onto the ground while yelling "Weapon Party!"

 

I don't dupe in DL, but if PVP wasn't affected? You wouldn't hear a peep about it from me; go to town. It's all about how it affects the experience for others, and unlike BL, it's the leaking into a PVP environment that causes big problems. But in an online mode where items can be dropped/traded, there's generally going to be some way to duplicate items. I'd love to be proven wrong on that some day, but it's just very difficult to stop when a defining factor is just how connections between players works.

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The obvious solution here is that, if a player's inventory goes over 9,000 of an item, a short clip of Vegeta screaming into his scouter appears on the screen. Upon returning to the inventory, the item is now at 1. B)

 

Haha, you got it. And why stop there, I say those with survivor ranks over Underdog have their invasion set to anytime, Night Hunters paying them a visit have their howl replaced by him also complaining it's over 9000 and they actually get stronger the more they're UVed until they go... super saiyan, is it? Like the Witcher 3's Bovine Defence Force Initiative.

 

 

I remember the days of Airstrike flare spams. Super Saiyan Night Hunter. CD Projekt Red eat your heart out. Yes this solution would be just... fine. :P

 

Agreed. It's very much like Borderlands. Half the fun of that game is getting a good gun, flying into other players' games, and duping your whole stash onto the ground while yelling "Weapon Party!"

 

I don't dupe in DL, but if PVP wasn't affected? You wouldn't hear a peep about it from me; go to town. It's all about how it affects the experience for others, and unlike BL, it's the leaking into a PVP environment that causes big problems. But in an online mode where items can be dropped/traded, there's generally going to be some way to duplicate items. I'd love to be proven wrong on that some day, but it's just very difficult to stop when a defining factor is just how connections between players works.

I just got started with that game on Ps4, hehe. I could do with a loot party at end game. Krieg needs to taste the violence! See the numbers, taste the violence...

 

And exactly. Full admission, after finishing the game twice I did dupe crafting materials and other odds and ends to have a mess around, then when I got bored of that I started beating up everything hand to hand or with the rubbishest weapons I could find. It was fun to go full cheese from time to time, but in a game like this I can see it undermining the survival aspect of it. No one really ever started groups to go on actual supply runs and such in my experience, which seemed like the game was designed to promote in difficult areas and it's a shame it never really got started on a big scale.

 

But the day to address that has passed long ago. Dupes seem like they'll always find a way in. Dead Island had some funny ones. First time beating that I got to the end boss and a co op player peppered him with thrown super charged electric machetes. He didn't even get finished with his evil monologue before he was down, lol.

 

I'm happy for people to play the non competitive side of the game however they please. To cater for purist players in the future (thinking sequels here) I hope Techland give users more options in co-op such as turning off random people dropping items on the ground to pick up and tuning the difficulty to their tastes (weapon damage normalization, etc) as a reward for finishing the game like that popular mod for XCOM. Long War I think it was called.

 

And for the PvP side of things, it's better to be aggressive to close down avenues to cause mischief as they started doing. I imagine they've learned alot from this round of it though and if we see a return of a mode like Be the Zombie in a sequel it'll inherit the tweaks to make things more fun and fair. As for right now, we can only hope... I wonder how many balancing patches we'll see from here on out.

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Duping is what keeps btz alive, if you get rid of that, the people will turn off their invasions for scavenging time and that means less games in the lobby, few might get bored and give up on game as there are many, who are just interested in playing invasions.

 

I don't mind duping items, you'll get greater satisfaction if you kill a duper.

 

One of the duping techniques i found is to give everything i have to friend, then exit and restore savegame. I used that technique to equip few humans i played against.

 

I just don't care about dupers and i am not a prodigy hunter. Flare spammers and campers are so poor i'm almost crying at their fate.

 

 

The real problem are cheaters, not dupers.

Edited by sanjyuubi

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Please don't spread how to dupe in the forums, it could possible get you a warning.

Really? I thought that was so OBVIOUS!

 

Warning? Since when save game managment is a crime? Any cheats, file mods or exploits are not used here, just copy/paste a files, that were originally created by game in their original form.

 

 

 

Edited by sanjyuubi

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