Recommended Posts

Hey Chickeninja,

Sorry if I wasn't clear. My Chess example was meant strictly as a matchmaking comparison. It was meant to show how getting paired up with someone outside your skill level can make you feel, even in a completely balanced, symmetrical game. My Mario Kart reference was strictly in regards to how they use rubberbanding to encourage close matches.  

 

Again, I'm not saying BTZ is perfectly balanced and we cannot  improve it.  We can, and we are.  BTZ gameplay is asymmetrical and I believe that makes it easy for people to write off the skills it takes for the other party to succeed in the game.  It's easy to just say "They have better tools than me, that's why they won" when in actual fact, they most likely have practiced longer and/or have a better understanding of the game.  As I mentioned above, our data shows that 1v1 is very close. We know as you move closer to 4v1 it can be very difficult for the Hunter against skilled teams working together. We are making some changes to help the Hunter here.

 

The best thing you can do right now if you are getting frustrated with the matchups you are receiving, is to only join full green bars in the matchup screen. 

 

Speaking strictly matchmaking makes my point further: the world's chess elite does play outside of their skill level for fun:

 

 

I think Gates enjoyed that. And further making my point about players' control in customizing their matches, the world champ did play rook odds recently and was still able to win 4 out of 9 against an international master. And when not for fun, people play for their club, or eventually for what they consider to be decent appearance money and terms. If you guys have an internal pro league, I'd sure enjoy footage of some of that. :)

 

In any case, club or fun, we have a gentlemen's agreement on type of game and permissible handicaps or not. Chess grants that flexibility which also promotes respect and longevity of the community, for which they have a decent track record.

 

Also, it's hard to blame people for taking their losses to heart, but perhaps one could publicly do what you're doing here and as was hinted at with the possibility of you guys putting out a video concerning the game mode again: giving people a bit of background on mechanics, history of patches, how to better one's games, e.g. explaining tackle update for hunters. This would undermine the "they have better tools than me, that's why they won" reasoning. Another way to soften the blow is reward non-winning accomplishments and playing styles: people that revive a lot, hunters that don't take advantage of each and every cheap pounce to increase suspense and quality of game, the brave types who choose to tackle the learning curve by playing and losing to tough opponents, hunter killers, nest hackers, spit-meister hunters, cqc hunters, careful stalking types, defensive survivors etc.  

 

Nice to see the hunter being helped out at 4v1 situation. Beginning survivors in that setting will have reason to believe their UV isn't working properly because of the nerf. And btw no, I'm not frustrated with matchups, even if it can be hard to find a good match as hunter. All good fun that could be bettered with more player control, similar to people choosing inventory and/or character before a mario kart matchup to mirror their playing style. As for the elite pool idea, It'd be nice to have that as choice. Often I prefer to be surprised as too much high level play from my pov can feel like predictable work, grinding somebody down that has a similar level to you can feel like a chore at times, where both know that some luck will be involved to determine the winner... whereas beginners will approach a map/situation with novel ideas that are challenging and fresh even if their winning chances are low.

 

The reason I push the point is that on PC, cheating is hard to ignore and the players that can zip around the map, teleporting and employing all the funky cheats as they please, are having a good time. Regardless of their wins or losses. Aside from the feasibility problem, I don't see why the rest of us shouldn't enjoy the same possibilities, if we can agree on the responsible use of handicap measures, which is what cheats and mods are, with opponents. This seems consistent with enjoying all possibilities of the game. So, two hunters or generally options regarding a game's parameters are part of the matchup question and my posts in this context simply mirror pushing for player control that cheaters already enjoy. At the same time it is understandable that a corporation doesn't want to mess with a formula that works, which is cool, of course. The fun for this hunter/survivor is however to some extent with player control nonetheless, accompanied perhaps by optional guidance available from the game makers.

Edited by Chickeninja

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi techland could you put some form of XP display on btz for the survivors I'm on ps4 the hunter has it but I've no idea how much XP I'm earning towards the next rank I've no idea whether the other platforms have it any info would be great many thanks. Update I've been doing some research on this and it seems to only appear on the PC version not on ps4 and Xbox one am I doing something wrong?

Edited by GaryElderkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I re-post some of the concerns and suggestions made earlier that imo are invaluable to the btz mode. All posts shown are from this thread:

   

1. Imbalance between survivor's and Night hunter lives. 

  • SomeOldDude concluded at the end of his video ‘…Night hunter cannot afford to die 5 times, each death is a lost of nest. This in turn means that the Night hunter does not have infinite lives. He has 5 lives…' (post #10).

2. Alternative for the current uv suppressor:

  • ‘…Could it be considered for the disable survivor sense to instead become something akin to 'be invisible to survivor sense'. This new spit is all but pointless if it never connects…' (Ahardie post #41).

3. Hunter gets punished for missing a pounce/ dodge when play with > 1 survivor:

  • ‘…What would fix these types of situations would be the human being knocked down after a pounce was interrupted (as opposed to remaining upright as they current now do)…' (A. Ryan post #63 & 68).

4. The use of guns should attract virals (many posted this).

 

5. Rewarding Night hunter for engaging or being more aggressive with its attack:

  • ‘....What if certain actions could reduce spit cooldown by a set percentage?....' (Jcks post #76).
  • Or hunter spit/ HP gets regen (certain amount) after a successful kill (SomeOldDude post #84).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I re-post some of the concerns and suggestions made earlier that imo are invaluable to the btz mode. All posts shown are from this thread:

   

1. Imbalance between survivor's and Night hunter lives. 

  • SomeOldDude concluded at the end of his video ‘…Night hunter cannot afford to die 5 times, each death is a lost of nest. This in turn means that the Night hunter does not have infinite lives. He has 5 lives…' (post #10).

2. Alternative for the current uv suppressor:

  • ‘…Could it be considered for the disable survivor sense to instead become something akin to 'be invisible to survivor sense'. This new spit is all but pointless if it never connects…' (Ahardie post #41).

3. Hunter gets punished for missing a pounce/ dodge when play with > 1 survivor:

  • ‘…What would fix these types of situations would be the human being knocked down after a pounce was interrupted (as opposed to remaining upright as they current now do)…' (A. Ryan post #63 & 68).

4. The use of guns should attract virals (many posted this).

 

5. Rewarding Night hunter for engaging or being more aggressive with its attack:

  • ‘....What if certain actions could reduce spit cooldown by a set percentage?....' (Jcks post #76).
  • Or hunter spit/ HP gets regen (certain amount) after a successful kill (SomeOldDude post #84).

 

 

Thanks for supporting my idea to fix the pounce. I was playing in the Slums and got my a$$ handed to me because of humans not being knocked down after an interrupted pounce. The human was on roof tops for the majority of the match, I pounced, got interrupted, fell to the ground floor, and got death from above numerous times! The hunter gets punished from an interrupted pounce by being knocked down while the human remains upright. This gives the humans PLENTY of time to punish the hunter for an interrupted pounce e.g. death from above, throwing weapons, UV blasts, melee swipes, etc. When the hunter is knocked down from the interrupted pounce, the falling and getting back up off the ground animation is what makes the hunter vulnerable to attack since the hunter cannot move, and is essentially, a sitting duck.   

 

Btw, I can't wait until the shield spit exploit is patched. The human used the shield 2-3 times during this same match to negate the effects of my spit. With me getting death from above throughout the match because of the interrupted pounces, and the human taking advantage of the shield exploit, I was about to throw my fist through my TV.

Edited by A. Ryan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, why does the hunter's energy bar only regen at a slow and staggered pace? You would think that it would refill at a much quicker and non-staggered rate, but it does not. Why is this? Is it implemented that way to make it harder to be more of a successful hunter during matches? I've lost out on plenty of pounce opportunities because the energy bar refills little by little at a staggered pace. I'm sure everyone already knows what I'm talking about, but I just don't know why it is implemented like this. Below is a random video and at the 10:15-10:30 mark you can see that the hunter's energy bar refills at a staggered stop-and-go rate until fully replenished.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi techland could you put some form of XP display on btz for the survivors I'm on ps4 the hunter has it but I've no idea how much XP I'm earning towards the next rank I've no idea whether the other platforms have it any info would be great many thanks

 

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking for.  The Survivors should be notified of XP awards the same way as the Hunter is during BTZ.  (i.e. dropkick, interrupt a pounce, evade a tackle, or kill the Hunter etc.) You should see the XP awarded on the HUD every time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I re-post some of the concerns and suggestions made earlier that imo are invaluable to the btz mode. All posts shown are from this thread:

   

1. Imbalance between survivor's and Night hunter lives. 

  • SomeOldDude concluded at the end of his video ‘…Night hunter cannot afford to die 5 times, each death is a lost of nest. This in turn means that the Night hunter does not have infinite lives. He has 5 lives…' (post #10).

2. Alternative for the current uv suppressor:

  • ‘…Could it be considered for the disable survivor sense to instead become something akin to 'be invisible to survivor sense'. This new spit is all but pointless if it never connects…' (Ahardie post #41).

3. Hunter gets punished for missing a pounce/ dodge when play with > 1 survivor:

  • ‘…What would fix these types of situations would be the human being knocked down after a pounce was interrupted (as opposed to remaining upright as they current now do)…' (A. Ryan post #63 & 68).

4. The use of guns should attract virals (many posted this).

 

5. Rewarding Night hunter for engaging or being more aggressive with its attack:

  • ‘....What if certain actions could reduce spit cooldown by a set percentage?....' (Jcks post #76).
  • Or hunter spit/ HP gets regen (certain amount) after a successful kill (SomeOldDude post #84).

 

 

1. Nests in general should take a bit more time to destroy post patch. There are a couple of exploits currently that allow them to be killed too quickly.  Also, if the Hunter is falling behind, the Nests will pose a greater challenge to destroy than usual.  

2. "This new spit is all but pointless if it never connects" This is true for every skill each player has on both sides!  It takes 'skill' to use your tools effectively!  There are plenty of setups to allow you to land successful spits!  Don't just throw them out there and hope for the best! 

3.  This is fully intentional gameplay.  You need to think more strategically about your pounces if this is happening to you a lot.  Setting up attacks on the Hunter by encouraging a poorly placed pounce and then interrupting it is a valid strategy that many skilled Survivors use.  Some will stand in front if spikes and wait to bait out a pounce...or maybe on top of a lamp post.  It's up to you to be aware of your surroundings.  You have control over when/where you decide to pounce. Choose other attacks if you see Survivors trying to bait a pounce to put you in a bad situation.

4. All Virals in BTZ are tied to attacking nests... whether you shoot them or hit them with melee.  Gun damage vs Nests has also been reduced post patch.  They are really only good for finishing off a "low health" Nest or a "nearly dead" Hunter that is trying to flee.  

5. These are interesting ideas!  I like the idea of regen buffs tied to certain actions.  I can tell you there will be some adjustments with the Hunters skill regen post patch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

U know why this thread is so awesome Pete? because u are actively engaging with the community and directly involved in the btz development.

 

Although some of the suggestions given aren't considered, i'm satisfied with your explanation. The point is we all want the best for the hunter i.e. having a fair chance in any given match. So with u being active here, it's like a bless to the forumers aka hunters. Keep up the good work Pete!

 

I hope there will be a cameo of u in the next btz video, seriously! (i hope u guys will support this request too  :P

 

Now back to our topic. So there will be adjustment to the hunter's skills regen after the following (+patch). Great i'm looking forward to that, thanks for the new info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, why does the hunter's energy bar only regen at a slow and staggered pace? You would think that it would refill at a much quicker and non-staggered rate, but it does not. Why is this? Is it implemented that way to make it harder to be more of a successful hunter during matches? I've lost out on plenty of pounce opportunities because the energy bar refills little by little at a staggered pace. I'm sure everyone already knows what I'm talking about, but I just don't know why it is implemented like this. Below is a random video and at the 10:15-10:30 mark you can see that the hunter's energy bar refills at a staggered stop-and-go rate until fully replenished.

 

 

 

The Hunters bar regens from empty to full in 10 seconds (secret pro tip-  if you crouch you can regen in 7 seconds!).  I'm not sure why the bar staggers.  I'm not really a fan of that myself...but it has no impact on the regen. It's purely a visual thing.  Regen is constant.

 

If you are still sick of waiting around for regen then make sure to use the new and improved UV Heal!  It will be much more useful post patch!  

U know why this thread is so awesome Pete? because u are actively engaging with the community and directly involved in the btz development.

 

Although some of the suggestions given aren't considered, i'm satisfied with your explanation. The point is we all want the best for the hunter i.e. having a fair chance in any given match. So with u being active here, it's like a bless to the forumers aka hunters. Keep up the good work Pete!

 

I hope there will be a cameo of u in the next btz video, seriously! (i hope u guys will support this request too  :P

 

Now back to our topic. So there will be adjustment to the hunter's skills regen after the following (+patch). Great i'm looking forward to that, thanks for the new info.

 

Thanks EnlightenMe!

It's always nice to feel appreciated ;)

 

We are doing our best to balance the game and make it fun for everyone involved!  It's no easy task. If we go too far tweaking a couple things in the Hunters favour he can quickly become an unstoppable killing machine (some of you Hunter players might like this but it's no fun on the Survivor side).  We've been there a few times in testing already.  We are constantly needing to reel him in! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pete,

 

Thanks for the reply and for the new information. I do have some another questions for you if you don't mind. Do you have a timeline as to when the new tweaks and testing will be complete for BTZ? With about 29 days left until the patch and The Following is released - along with the numerous suggestions that have been presented - I would think that everything needs to go "gold" within a few weeks, or am I totally off in my assumption? I'm personally curious as to the timetable when you guys would finalize things prior to the actual launch date or are things already pretty much solidified at this point?

 

Also, any updates on the third "elite" matchmaking pool eluded to in a previous conversation? I believe there was talk about separating the matchmaking into three distinct pools. I'm wondering if these pools will be implemented at all or with the patch?

Edited by A. Ryan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right, we won't be adding any brand new features at this point! All the major changes have been implemented for the most part, but there are still a lot of things we can do for balance/tweaking/bug fixing, right now.  Just trying to polish it all up and make it as solid as possible!  I'm going to be non-stop testing and tuning from here on out.

 

The 3rd 'elite' pool! I was hoping to do that this week but it's most likely going to have to wait until next week now.  We will probably set it up on Monday!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right, we won't be adding any brand new features at this point! All the major changes have been implemented for the most part, but there are still a lot of things we can do for balance/tweaking/bug fixing, right now.  Just trying to polish it all up and make it as solid as possible!  I'm going to be non-stop testing and tuning from here on out.

 

The 3rd 'elite' pool! I was hoping to do that this week but it's most likely going to have to wait until next week now.  We will probably set it up on Monday!

 

Pete,

 

That's very good news to hear and I appreciate your time for answering my questions. Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pete,

 

I appreciate all the feedback on BtZ and the upcoming updates.

 

One more question: is there anything changing concerning the modding of the game, especially in BtZ?  Removing incentives for not playing as intended like in-games rewards of loot, weapons, and rankings when the game detects certain things?  Or a way to flag a player for ourselves so we don't have to play them again?  Also, be able to gracefully bow out of a match when a flagged player enters an established match?  (I've come across situations where I've been searching for matches while ignoring a certain player, only to have him enter a different match I eventually found.  This is frustrating.)

 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pete,

 

I appreciate all the feedback on BtZ and the upcoming updates.

 

One more question: is there anything changing concerning the modding of the game, especially in BtZ?  Removing incentives for not playing as intended like in-games rewards of loot, weapons, and rankings when the game detects certain things?  Or a way to flag a player for ourselves so we don't have to play them again?  Also, be able to gracefully bow out of a match when a flagged player enters an established match?  (I've come across situations where I've been searching for matches while ignoring a certain player, only to have him enter a different match I eventually found.  This is frustrating.)

 

Thanks!

 

We did our best to remove incentives for cheating without affecting legitimate players.  There is an AFK timer for survivors (post patch) as well as a non-interaction timer.  Either timer will cause a loss on the Survivor side and a win for the Hunter.  If the Hunter hasn't died yet and a Nest has not been destroyed, the Hunter can quit causing an abort rather than being attributed a loss.  The Survivor receives no rewards in this situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So now humans can get the time out loss if a hunter can prevent them from reaching a nest within a time limit? Nice, as if they aren't op as it is with all the move spamming they can do

 

No,  Humans have to be inactive.  Damaging the Hunter in any way, even UV light, will reset the timer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...The 3rd 'elite' pool! I was hoping to do that this week but it's most likely going to have to wait until next week now.  We will probably set it up on Monday!

 

Hi Pete, regarding this 3rd pool- assuming that it consist of higher rank players that have high win to loss ratio. Will the stats from aborted games be counted too?

 

The reason i ask this because i believe that the win/ loss ratio will be much lower that the 60-40 u mentioned earlier for the coming elite pool. With the current 2 pools system, the latter one counts for both average and elite players and many of the average players also have their own dedicated groups (3-4 players). So i'm sure that most of the 40% win ratio achieved by the hunters come from this group.   

 

Don't think so? Well MANY high rank hunters (not all) tend to abort the game if they don't stand any chance against their opponents- probably because they don't see the point to continue the game or don't want to rank down (yes, a group of elite survivors is less likely to abort from my exp).

 

So my concern is that if the stats from aborted games are not counted i.e. kills/ death ratio for hunter/ survivors, etc., the win/ loss ratio alone may underrate the difficulty that the hunters have to face when fighting against 3-4 elite survivors. Maybe u guys already have other better indicators that i'm not aware of, my apology for that.

 

Anyway, the addition for the elite pool is very much welcome and appreciated as it can help improve the current game's balance design  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The spam dodge... There should be something done about it. If someone is good at it they can dodge your every gp not even talking about the tackle. It is also very hard to hit them with spits, expecially if they are using the shield. Thanks, and good night, good hunt.


I had edited my post after you saw it...

 

But, is that trick with holding down the tackle key suppose to work in all situations on all platforms?  I just jumped on the game (PC) to try it in the tutorial and it doesn't work.  I just run into the human.  I have to not have the key pressed until I'm in range and then execute it.

They said "now" as in when "The Following" releases, so you can't do it just yet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hunters that quit are attributed a loss and that is counted.  

 

For Survivors, the dodge can be quite useful...but only in the right environment.  Open areas make it easy for them to dodge away if they are paying attention to you.  The Hunter, more or less, gets to choose when/where to attack though.  You should wait to attack when the environment gives you an advantage or when the Survivor is focused on something else.  For example, no survivor can dodge away from a groundpound when they are cornered.  They can't see what's behind them when they keep dodging back.  Wait until they've backed themselves into a corner and then use your groundpound or spits. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't if this problem has been addressed yet but on ps4 lately I been having more problems trying initiate my ground pound. In crucial moments when I need gp it just swipes the hunters claws and doesn't active and I know I'm holding the R2 button down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 3rd 'elite' pool! I was hoping to do that this week but it's most likely going to have to wait until next week now.  We will probably set it up on Monday!

 

Pete,

 

Can you elaborate a little more on how this new pool (and the other pools will work)? Is the player's position within each pool decided on a win / loss ratio or something else? e.g. mutation, number of skills unlocked, present level, etc. I'm curious on what actually dictates a player as they move from the first pool, to the second and so on.

 

For example:

 

A player is a mutation one hunter with only three skills unlocked and thus are only level 3. What pool would they be in and how would the decision be made to move them up to the next pool? If they win the next 10 matches? Unlock more skills? Become a mutation two hunter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once a survivor reaches Max rank there is no need to play the game anymore you get the same rewards regardless there are better weapons from the main game so I can't see many people playing btz all I see on here is hunters moaning about the shield when the shield is meant for defence anyway hunters win by spamming ground pound all the time let's see how many people play after the patch not many I guess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the Hunter hasn't died yet and a Nest has not been destroyed, the Hunter can quit causing an abort rather than being attributed a loss.  The Survivor receives no rewards in this situation.

 

This is an excellent addition! For those of us who stream the game, an option to leave a game in which a player is openly/obviously going to elongate the match as long as possible will do wonders for keeping the flow of gameplay consistent. It prevents us from having to choose between "Give an AFK farmer the win" and "Disconnect the stream to avoid the loss." It'll also help us avoid games with players who are legitimately AFK without choosing between ruining our records or "unsportmanly" farming them.

 

Actually, it helps with a pretty wide number of things. For beginner Hunters, this can help them escape a game in which high-level players are trolling Hunters by diving into low-level Humans' games after they've begun. If new exploits rear their ugly heads, Hunters who spot them quickly can also dip out of the game without negatively affecting their own record while avoiding giving those players unjust rewards.

 

All-around excellent addition!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now