Recommended Posts

*bump*

 

Hi Pete,

First time posting so I'm not sure if this has been covered. But I believe this to be a critical issue for BTZ.

Are you aware that it is possible to bypass MMR as the NH to invade games of players FAR less experienced that you? As an Apex Predator, I am able to enter games of players with a Prey rank, sometimes these players are level 4 (obviously their first time being invaded - EVER). So you can imagine their distain when a level 58 Apex Predator x3 mutated invades their game... it is highly unfair to them and I believe would be leaving several players displeased with being invaded altogether.

I have known about this for quite some time now but the main reason I kept this a secret is because I find it difficult to even find a single opponent for lengthy periods of time. So using the method described in my video, I am able to choose games and have a bit of fun.

Mostly I just have a bit of fun with the humans. I try to showcase what the NH is capable of in hopes of teaching them a thing or 2. More often than not, I'll allow them the win as wins don't matter to me anymore.

So the reason I'm now posting this is because I'm hoping you can fix the MMR so that I have more of a selection of players to choose from. It seems the "scope" of your MMR seems very specific, therefore leaving me with limited opponents to choose from.

I know this is a fixable solution, as I have noticed that you sometimes expand the pool of opponents and add in 2/5 Matching opponents or 3/5 (rarely 4). So these 2/5 Matching games are essentially the Prey ranked opponents I find whilst employing my above stated method (in the video). You do this periodically, and for a short period of time. But you only either go ALL opponents of ALL ranks, or just my select few Ultimate Survivors (far and few between). Adding to that, now that player's ranks are being reset when switching difficulties, I have a near impossible strike rate finding opponents at all without bypassing MMR.

So in conclusion, is there anything you can to create an opponent pool of 3/5 -> 5/5 Matching (contender/indomitable etc)? And just remove the 2/5 Prey ranks in that pool. That would mean more games for us to choose from, and removing the chance that a player NEVER turns on invasion because they just get rekt by highly experienced NH.

Regards,

Leather-Entity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting pounced sometimes while standing in a flare while uv is draining the night hunter happens with the flashlight too sometimes

 The pounce moves you so it's possible for the Hunter to pounce just outside the flare and then have the pounce take you inside the active flare radius.  Once the Hunter has reached a certain point in the pounce it cannot be uninterrupted.

*bump*

 

 

Thanks.  We will look into this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and cheater are still exist even on vac enabled game :(

saw again another guy being the hunter that suddenly gone from my sight, and in mini map it show the hunter icon as me. and he also using walk speed cheat and unlimited spit.

 

which mean he can always chase me with his GP charging even when i dodging backward.

 

and he still have the decency to said i'm not cheating, GP is legit :|

 

 The pounce moves you so it's possible for the Hunter to pounce just outside the flare and then have the pounce take you inside the active flare radius.  Once the Hunter has reached a certain point in the pounce it cannot be uninterrupted.


 

Thanks.  We will look into this.

Edited by Nova Scotia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because you have VAC ban turned on doesn't mean you won't get any hackers joining your games. All that setting prevents is players who have received a Vac bann will be unable to join.

 

There are plenty of people who cheat/hack that haven't been vac banned, simply because they haven't been caught. Essentially, you need report "would be" cheaters/hackers the moment you suspect and or encounter to help the developers and online community squelch these chupacabra lowly loser forever noob so called gamer, pathetic, childish, trollin sac of monkey chupacabra.

 

If the game has reached a level of difficulty that you're degrading yourself to using hacks and cheats, wouldn't it just be better for you to "move on" and find something else? Why waste your time doing something easy, you're not learning anything new, you're not getting better and quite frankly... It makes you look stupid..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because you have VAC ban turned on doesn't mean you won't get any hackers joining your games. All that setting prevents is players who have received a Vac bann will be unable to join.

There are plenty of people who cheat/hack that haven't been vac banned, simply because they haven't been caught. Essentially, you need report "would be" cheaters/hackers the moment you suspect and or encounter to help the developers and online community squelch these chupacabra lowly loser forever noob so called gamer, pathetic, childish, trollin sac of monkey chupacabra.

If the game has reached a level of difficulty that you're degrading yourself to using hacks and cheats, wouldn't it just be better for you to "move on" and find something else? Why waste your time doing something easy, you're not learning anything new, you're not getting better and quite frankly... It makes you look stupid..

They actually handle vac bans on a monthly or fortnightly basis. So they'll take in reports, confirm the hackers, and then roll out the bans on the cycle. That way, the modders/creators of these hacks dont know which has been detected or not. As people wont get banned until sometime after theyved been detected. Its a supposed deterent to prevent the mods/hacks from knowing its been detected, patchinf a fix for stealth etc and rollin it out again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah i agree but i don't really mind if they cheat in single player, but it's different if it's PVP, as they gain unfair advantage against their opponent

 

Btw activating VAC doesn't just make people that have vac banned unable to join, but it should also detect cheating software/modified game file based on their signature

 

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7849-Radz-6869

 

AFAIK now the problem its seem that VAC didn't include any cheating tools signature yet for Dying Light that's why those cheater don't get VAC Banned

 

and the dev also should not just depend on vac, as they really need to actively do something like changing the important address (health,xp,speed,etc) every update, or use some encryption so it's not easy for them to find the address, that + updated vac will hopefully be enough to deter cheater.

 

 

 

Just because you have VAC ban turned on doesn't mean you won't get any hackers joining your games. All that setting prevents is players who have received a Vac bann will be unable to join.

There are plenty of people who cheat/hack that haven't been vac banned, simply because they haven't been caught. Essentially, you need report "would be" cheaters/hackers the moment you suspect and or encounter to help the developers and online community squelch these chupacabra lowly loser forever noob so called gamer, pathetic, childish, trollin sac of monkey chupacabra.

If the game has reached a level of difficulty that you're degrading yourself to using hacks and cheats, wouldn't it just be better for you to "move on" and find something else? Why waste your time doing something easy, you're not learning anything new, you're not getting better and quite frankly... It makes you look stupid..

 

Edited by Nova Scotia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tl; dr: The difference between cheating and "innovation that might catch on", with blunt exception of transparent aim to win as much as possible, is often unclear. This post advocates player control and transparent player profiles/experience over policing culture.
 
It is disingenuous and rather biased towards hunter pov to reject calls for increased player control as fanciful, or citing them as a disturbance to balance or practicality, while a matchmaking hunter advantage is seen generally as a good idea or "something to try". Sorry, but complaining about lack of sportsmanship and jumping towards any idea that tip the scales in favor of your perceived side is what it is.
 
"Perceived" side, because I find these trench wars regarding balance to be dubious in that they serve more to divide players rather than players all recognizing the fact that they are in the same boat. Nobody wants op survivors or op hunters.

Of course, I love a good rant as much as the next guy and cheating with unsportsmanlike aims is sad but this matchmaking example shows that people are arguing within a context that is culturally engineered and are so caught up in some personal interpretation of the game, their win/loss score, and judging other players, that they don't see the ambiguity between cheating and innovating/developing the game. More security means less freedom, which implies less innovation.

The brash, widespread pretense towards skills, pioneership, demands as to how the game should look like or be played based on some claims of ueber high experience/skill with the game... sigh. :rolleyes: VAC will merely continue the cat and mouse game instead of helping player culture relate, connect, and understand itself sufficiently, to promote good sportsmanship as the only real basis for any quality game play.
 

Anyway, thanks to Leather Entity for sharing and demonstrating once again, that breaking the rules does not always imply lower motives. That survivor ranks got reset to prey, which initially helped us to more games, also falls into this category. The buggies are unfortunately still buggy and with the constant resets, people running out of parts will do what they have to do, to simply play BtZ.

To be frank, I'd rather play the blunt childish hackers out there and loose, rather than VAC policing culture, matchmaking droughts, and facts like the mere desire to play BtZ with a functioning car (and parts...), given the survival narrative background, forces folks into hands of cheating players and their work. These righteous, egoistic, policing attitudes are the true fuel of cheating and cheaters. The hope to deter cheaters enough with measures x,y,z is like alcohol prohibition. Switch addresses fine, how is this done? Cat and mouse again.

Like with any form of prohibition, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And this, more than cheaters, possible bans, or policing threats, is what turns folks like yours truly off from playing. Don't misread me though, I think this game has a lot of potential, but remain consistent with regard to my minority advocacy of player control + truth in advertising player profiles/experience in this forum, on matchmaking and other levels of game. In the long run, if the player base is treated as a child not worthy of control concerning a game they purchased, it is unsurprising that they will act accordingly. Do note, that I am purposefully leaving how this should look like or be implemented to the reader, as I assume you to have a brain. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is profile transparency may help reduce cheater, but not stop them, just see how many found cheating in sport / game tournament where their profile is usually known, and the only way to know they are cheating is always a game of cat and mouse.

 

and for me VAC & Bugs doesn't deter me more than cheater do (i use cheater here as using 3rd party tool doesn't make them hacker), bug can be fixed but cheater is what make the PVP not fun anymore, do note that this doesn't mean i don't want the bug get fixed.

 

also correct me if i'm wrong here, but it seem techland didn't make the be the zombie dlc, this could explain as to why the mode doesn't change much, and it also explain why pete only active in be the zombie forum.

 

 

 

 

Tl; dr: The difference between cheating and "innovation that might catch on", with blunt exception of transparent aim to win as much as possible, is often unclear. This post advocates player control and transparent player profiles/experience over policing culture.
 
It is disingenuous and rather biased towards hunter pov to reject calls for increased player control as fanciful, or citing them as a disturbance to balance or practicality, while a matchmaking hunter advantage is seen generally as a good idea or "something to try". Sorry, but complaining about lack of sportsmanship and jumping towards any idea that tip the scales in favor of your perceived side is what it is.
 
"Perceived" side, because I find these trench wars regarding balance to be dubious in that they serve more to divide players rather than players all recognizing the fact that they are in the same boat. Nobody wants op survivors or op hunters.

Of course, I love a good rant as much as the next guy and cheating with unsportsmanlike aims is sad but this matchmaking example shows that people are arguing within a context that is culturally engineered and are so caught up in some personal interpretation of the game, their win/loss score, and judging other players, that they don't see the ambiguity between cheating and innovating/developing the game. More security means less freedom, which implies less innovation.

The brash, widespread pretense towards skills, pioneership, demands as to how the game should look like or be played based on some claims of ueber high experience/skill with the game... sigh. :rolleyes: VAC will merely continue the cat and mouse game instead of helping player culture relate, connect, and understand itself sufficiently, to promote good sportsmanship as the only real basis for any quality game play.
 

Anyway, thanks to Leather Entity for sharing and demonstrating once again, that breaking the rules does not always imply lower motives. That survivor ranks got reset to prey, which initially helped us to more games, also falls into this category. The buggies are unfortunately still buggy and with the constant resets, people running out of parts will do what they have to do, to simply play BtZ.

To be frank, I'd rather play the blunt childish hackers out there and loose, rather than VAC policing culture, matchmaking droughts, and facts like the mere desire to play BtZ with a functioning car (and parts...), given the survival narrative background, forces folks into hands of cheating players and their work. These righteous, egoistic, policing attitudes are the true fuel of cheating and cheaters. The hope to deter cheaters enough with measures x,y,z is like alcohol prohibition. Switch addresses fine, how is this done? Cat and mouse again.

Like with any form of prohibition, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And this, more than cheaters, possible bans, or policing threats, is what turns folks like yours truly off from playing. Don't misread me though, I think this game has a lot of potential, but remain consistent with regard to my minority advocacy of player control + truth in advertising player profiles/experience in this forum, on matchmaking and other levels of game. In the long run, if the player base is treated as a child not worthy of control concerning a game they purchased, it is unsurprising that they will act accordingly. Do note, that I am purposefully leaving how this should look like or be implemented to the reader, as I assume you to have a brain. :)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is profile transparency may help reduce cheater, but not stop them, just see how many found cheating in sport / game tournament where their profile is usually known, and the only way to know they are cheating is always a game of cat and mouse.

 

and for me VAC & Bugs doesn't deter me more than cheater do (i use cheater here as using 3rd party tool doesn't make them hacker), bug can be fixed but cheater is what make the PVP not fun anymore, do note that this doesn't mean i don't want the bug get fixed.

 

also correct me if i'm wrong here, but it seem techland didn't make the be the zombie dlc, this could explain as to why the mode doesn't change much, and it also explain why pete only active in be the zombie forum.

 

First, nice to meet you Nova, and thanks for the thoughtful reply and the insightful posts of late. I mean particularly the last bug list. It was so complete that there was nothing to add.  :)

 

As for your point, I agree in general. The cultural narrative that purports to save us from cheaters is the same police narrative that "saves" us from alcohol, different schools of thought, different lifestyles, cultures, notions of gender, sexuality, religions, drugs, gambling etc. These lead to infinite cat and mouse games because such issues are hardly as simple/black and white as people are led to believe.

 

It is not hard to see that policing itself promotes and provides ground to the best cheaters and abusers of the rule. It makes them "better at nonsense", while convincing themselves and outsiders that what they are doing makes sense. You cite competitive sports which is different in one way: competition is real and not part of a purchased, fictional game experience. So why should we pretend to police it as if Red Bull's million $ sponsorship deal depended on the integrity of our game? I play games to burn time and relax, not to play and/or need a lawyer.

 

Nevertheless, doping and cheating in professional sports make my point: we have more anti-doping than ever AND we have more doping than ever, that keeps becoming more sophisticated. The more people tighten the screws, the more people will push the limit of possible cheating and corruption.

 

And for what? For some subjective opinion concerning ultimate skill or "best"? Returning to multiplayer BtZ: my funnest matches are not the ones with try-hard types working hundreds of hours on their game skill; these matches are rather predictable and boring. Best matches are with respectful folk, where possible friendships open up, ambition is low, with jokes and brainless stupidity going on. This is also where I see the most imaginative play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, nice to meet you Nova, and thanks for the thoughtful reply and the insightful posts of late. I mean particularly the last bug list. It was so complete that there was nothing to add.  :)

 

As for your point, I agree in general. The cultural narrative that purports to save us from cheaters is the same police narrative that "saves" us from alcohol, different schools of thought, different lifestyles, cultures, notions of gender, sexuality, religions, drugs, gambling etc. These lead to infinite cat and mouse games because such issues are hardly as simple/black and white as people are led to believe.

 

It is not hard to see that policing itself promotes and provides ground to the best cheaters and abusers of the rule. It makes them "better at nonsense", while convincing themselves and outsiders that what they are doing makes sense. You cite competitive sports which is different in one way: competition is real and not part of a purchased, fictional game experience. So why should we pretend to police it as if Red Bull's million $ sponsorship deal depended on the integrity of our game? I play games to burn time and relax, not to play and/or need a lawyer.

 

Nevertheless, doping and cheating in professional sports make my point: we have more anti-doping than ever AND we have more doping than ever, that keeps becoming more sophisticated. The more people tighten the screws, the more people will push the limit of possible cheating and corruption.

 

And for what? For some subjective opinion concerning ultimate skill or "best"? Returning to multiplayer BtZ: my funnest matches are not the ones with try-hard types working hundreds of hours on their game skill; these matches are rather predictable and boring. Best matches are with respectful folk, where possible friendships open up, ambition is low, with jokes and brainless stupidity going on. This is also where I see the most imaginative play.

Great points stated here. The more policing, the more imaginative the "hackers" get with their 3rd party tools and software. I also agree with playing the game to have fun and not go all ham and cheese on your opponent. There's no trophy at the end, just some digital points digitally levelling your digital character. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people are shooting from crossbow or bow like from machinegun. The guy said it's a glitch and i should look on the youtube, but i can't find anything.

 

 

 

Is that on PC?

Edited by PaperPuppy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If survivor spams dodge ability, tackles become literally impossible. This could be solved by making dodges use stamina, but not successful evades of course.

 

It's easier to do a tackle than ground pound. I don't have much against tackling except some issues where players dodging tackle in the air.

Is that on PC?

 

Yes, this is on PC. I fought at least 4 people who exploited  "no realod" bug/glitch. In one match where a guy spammed explosive arrows around i just aborted, in the other match the guy stopped using that when i pointed it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

35. Invasion turn on/off dialog spam even when i'm not the host

36. Water timeout not resetting, so if i have 10 sec left, and go to land, and few minutes later enter the water again. the countdown is still reducing from 10 sec. happen twice already to me in the nest that surrounded by water

37. after a match end, there should be a delay for the same hunter to reenter, as of right now when the match end the hunter can left immediately and reenter while the human still stuck at the end match timer. as the human cannot turn off invasion while in the match timer, this making it harder to regroup/restock item/ammo

38. Regular flare now also have trouble sometime, as when thrown, it doesn't disappear like zaid flare bug but no light come out as if i just throw an empty flare

39. i don't  know this was intended or not, but hunter can now pounce under water (happen twice to me), like when i'm trying to reset the buggy under the water

40. only see this being used by one user so i don't know if this intended or not, but when his energy is empty, and he land a successful GP and he gain a bit of energy, he use his tendril to propel really far away, even when there's no building to tendril nearby. i don't know if he tendril to the ground but his propel is really far, can't even catch him with hook. maybe i should have record it too see how he done it.

 

also had a 15 mins match and the hunter use 65 uv block in 1vs1, i don't know if this is a glitch/cheat/rubber banding but it seem a bit excessive

 

btw sanyjuubi that crossbow like machine gun is a cheat not a bug/glitch, saw it couple of time being used by human, some use shotgun and some use crossbow, but never seen bow being used with those cheat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

39. i don't know this was intended or not, but hunter can now pounce under water (happen twice to me), like when i'm trying to reset the buggy under the water

This issue has been going on since day one and will never be fixed. The animation sequence when interacting with something forces the players avatar to "stand" as if standing on land. It only happens for a very VERY brief moment, the Hunter has to be watching very carefully in order to pounce and also be in good position.

 

The easiest way to avoid being pounce while under water is to flash uv light at hunter before interacting with anything...

 

Sometimes but very rarely your avatar will also "stand" while swimming at specific distances from sea level..(sea, lake or river... Whatever) I believe the specific level is relative to your camera height from the ground during normal ground movement.

 

If in water.. best to just swim as low as possible and keep your uv lights up.. ditch the car and find a recall.. never pick anything up.. never turn your back on a Hunter.. ect..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

didn't know the pounce inside the water was an old bug, they should have fixed it though

 

anyway the first time it's happen i was not interacting with anything and keeping really low, the second time i do indeed interacting with the buggy

 

that nest have too many disadvantage for the human, goon within small place, that mean if you dodge his hit you will fall to the water, or the hunter could tackle/dodge you, and when you dodge or failed to dodge them you will fall inside the water, and since that water there are not deep enough to avoid spits, you are forced to stay there  and combine that with the water time out bug, the hunter can easily GP the human to go back inside the water and make them lose by timeout

 

This issue has been going on since day one and will never be fixed. The animation sequence when interacting with something forces the players avatar to "stand" as if standing on land. It only happens for a very VERY brief moment, the Hunter has to be watching very carefully in order to pounce and also be in good position.

The easiest way to avoid being pounce while under water is to flash uv light at hunter before interacting with anything...

Sometimes but very rarely your avatar will also "stand" while swimming at specific distances from sea level..(sea, lake or river... Whatever) I believe the specific level is relative to your camera height from the ground during normal ground movement.

If in water.. best to just swim as low as possible and keep your uv lights up.. ditch the car and find a recall.. never pick anything up.. never turn your back on a Hunter.. ect..

 

41. sometime when in coop mode, if the human player are each spread out at different location and a hunter comes in, it will make the nest respawn really far far away to some of the player, it should have count based on all the players location not some of them, as i was with 2 other player and each are in different location, and when the nest spawn, it's 2km away for the two player, and the other player keep dying off fighting the hunter as he can't fight alone, and he keep respawning near the hunter

Edited by Nova Scotia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The critical state timer for the survivors has become 14 seconds, instead of the usual 30. I keep getting OHK as a downed survivor. Is this a bug or a change?

It's a change, but I think it should've been 20.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a change, but I think it should've been 20.

I seriously hope this is a bug. It makes Night Hunter matches a lot harder. It's become almost impossible to revive a downed player in time. Especially when the Night Hunter is nearby. I hope it gets set back to 30, but 25 is good as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The hunter may cancel the animation of a missed pounce by using a "moving GP" as soon as he landed. From there, he can: make an instant GP, or cancel the GP and flee.

Big thanks for mentioning about this problem. Assymetrc BTZ mode must be very hard to balance in order to make this mode competitive. I would like this mode to be my CS:GO alternative, it is close now, but due to small imbalance in 1v1 mode in hunters favor it is not, sadly. I think that the solution to the unavoidable spit-tackle or pounce-tackle combo would be stopping the spit timer when human is in animation and can not move, now you it is just.... eh. I play as a hunter too and in 1v1 mode people are just ragequitting, i feel bad doing the same thing over and over, it must be fixed. Tell me what you think about this, but in my opinion when techland tries to balance the game in 1v2+ mode they are making the game unplayable in 1v1 mode. BTW this was my best multiplayer experience for past few months until i found about some exploits which are ruining the game. No balance either in 1v1 or 1v2+. I know most spikes and barrels location, two guys like me and no hunter has a chance. One good apex using exploits and no survivor has a chance in 1v1.

Edited by EMtriX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's with the claw area of effect shouldn't be able to claw that far away

 

Probably just latency. It bugs me when I'm hit by weapons from a distances as the NH, but I know I'm not actually being hit with a 1H-Weapon from 20m away. Like DfAs or Hunter Tackles through roofs/walls. Sometimes the game just doesn't show things where they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now