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Zoralink

So While There's (Hopefully) Some Balance Changes Coming, Are There Any Plans To Address Baits?

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I recently got the game, and have been.... slowly hating my life more and more as I try to get into the hunter in Be the Zombie mode, only to continuously get matched against people with hundreds of hours. That could be survivable, but I've had more than a couple matches with people doing this. That's pretty unacceptable to me, that it views matching as viable based on nothing more than story progress. Finding decent matches is hard enough without people intentionally messing  with the matchmaker. (Or lack thereof...) For reference, the people were capped out on all of their skills as well as had multiple guns, etc, etc. I was a rank 8 hunter at the time.

 

How is this okay?

 

EDIT: Also stop matching me with FREAKING RUSSIANS, thanks. I don't enjoy getting killed 3 seconds after I've tendril'd away.

Edited by Zoralink

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You're always going to have people who run alts online when they're much more experienced at the game than their level implies. The issue here isn't high level players masquerading as low level survivors but rather the fact that a competent low level survivor can dominate a low level hunter.

 

I've mentioned this elsewhere before but lower level survivors start off with everything they need to compete; uv light, dodge, and drop kick depending on how far they progressed in the story before jumping online. Subsequently these are also some of the abilities that contribute to the advantage the survivors have over hunters (although the uv has received adequate nerfs in recent patches). A hunter doesn't even start off with spits and his base ground pound is pathetic. Pit a low level survivor against any level one hunter and the survivor, if competent, should never lose. Both sides should have a good chance of winning starting off but that's not the case with the hunter.

Edited by jcks

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I don't understand, just search for a noob?

People who do this show up as low ranked. They were technically only done with 11% of the story.

 

You're always going to have people who run alts online when they're much more experienced at the game than their level implies. The issue here isn't high level players masquerading as low level survivors but rather the fact that a competent low level survivor can dominate a low level hunter.

 

I've mentioned this elsewhere before but lower level survivors start off with everything they need to compete; uv light, dodge, and drop kick depending on how far they progressed in the story before jumping online. Subsequently these are also some of the abilities that contribute to the advantage the survivors have over hunters (although the uv has received adequate nerfs in recent patches). A hunter doesn't even start off with spits and his base ground pound is pathetic. Pit a low level survivor against any level one hunter and the survivor, if competent, should never lose. Both sides should have a good chance of winning starting off but that's not the case with the hunter.

The issue is that they were maxed out, complete with full abilities and guns, because they intentionally do not progress the story to lure in lower rank hunters.

 

Many times people will also bait by having a game with one or two people and then having multiple more join.

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It could be they are starting the campaign over after the first completion.  I did that.  I hate the ending so much that I've never completed it the second time.

 

I get what you're saying though, but I'm not so sure that's how it works.  I'll get everything from 98% all the way down to, I think, 8%.  I just played 3 who all were maxed out players, but were at 68% completion.  They were really strong players as a team, but their game fell apart halfway through, couldn't regroup, and didn't play well one-on-one.  Could be friends going through the campaign together.  I don't know if all players show the same percentage as the host--could be though.

 

I also see other, stronger players joining after the game gets going.  Sometimes they invite friends to help out.  Other times it's players no one wants to play (for various reason) who join.  That imbalance is mitigated somewhat on the next spawning of nests.

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maybe they are new plusing for outfits, boredom, etc.

No, they straight up admitted that they keep their story progress low just to lure in low rank hunters.

 

And like I said, it's not the first time I've seen it.

 

I don't really get why story progress is what's used to dictate a 'good' matchup.

Edited by Zoralink

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Well, I know while I've been at a fairly high level I've been paired with players who had absolutely no concept of BtZ mode.  I mean no UV light, didn't know they're supposed to destroy the nests, or in one case that I was actually another person playing the NH.  I'm sure there are glitches, but still rank noob survivors versus mutated NH is not a level playing field.

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Oh that's what you mean.

 

Yeah they can level up as much as they want before jumping in a match. But after that they should be ranked on their BtZ performance and not story progress according to this post.

 

That seems a little broken still, when you consider that hunters have to mutate (And thus lose all of their skills) but not their rank. For example, I'm at "Beast" rank (Rank 5 I believe?) but was there when I mutated for the first time.

 

I know that's a separate issue, but... yeah.

Edited by Zoralink

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I don't know that rank follows mutation and level.  I'm a Mutation 3 Level 50 Rank Carnivore.  I believe it's more of a function of how many wins versus loses.  I've leveled up while going down in rank because I lose so many times.  If it's a function of overall wins versus loses I'm pretty much screwed because I have a LOT of inertia to overcome.

Edited by SomeOldDude

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I don't know that rank follows mutation and level.  I'm a Mutation 3 Level 50 Rank Carnivore.  I believe it's more of a function of how many wins versus loses.  I've leveled up while going down in rank because I lose so many times.  If it's a function of overall wins versus loses I'm pretty much screwed because I have a LOT of inertia to overcome.

 

That's what I'm referring to. The fact that I can end up back as a level 1 hunter with no abilities but still be ranked at Beast. (And subsequently still be matched against higher ranked people who don't lose their abilities and items.)

 

Then again, I typically only see one or two games to even choose from to join anyway, so... shrug.

 

EDIT: Yeah, the game becomes unplayable late night (East Coast), with the same 4-5 people luring in hunters and/or being the only games available, all of them with hundreds of hours available. Hell, I can already start a list of names.

 

When I tell them to just end it, it's constant "chupacabra!" "loser Zoralink", etc, etc.

 

Sorry guys, when the lowest of your has 350 hours while I have 30 hours, (And only about 6-7 of those in BtZ) it's just not fun.

Edited by Zoralink

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That's what I'm referring to. The fact that I can end up back as a level 1 hunter with no abilities but still be ranked at Beast. (And subsequently still be matched against higher ranked people who don't lose their abilities and items.)

 

Then again, I typically only see one or two games to even choose from to join anyway, so... shrug.

 

EDIT: Yeah, the game becomes unplayable late night (East Coast), with the same 4-5 people luring in hunters and/or being the only games available, all of them with hundreds of hours available. Hell, I can already start a list of names.

 

When I tell them to just end it, it's constant "chupacabra!" "loser Zoralink", etc, etc.

 

Sorry guys, when the lowest of your has 350 hours while I have 30 hours, (And only about 6-7 of those in BtZ) it's just not fun.

 

Hunters do get matched with weaker survivors once they mutate for a few games, irrespective of rank I'd say from my experience, even though it's been awhile. And indeed, the culture is quite a sad story out there. But I don't allow idiots to rob the fun from my play.

 

I agree the grind is steep, but last I heard there were more zombies than survivors online, which is another reason to allow zombie cooperation.  :)

Edited by Chickeninja

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Hunters do get matched with weaker survivors once they mutate for a few games, irrespective of rank I'd say from my experience, even though it's been awhile. And indeed, the culture is quite a sad story out there. But I don't allow idiots to rob the fun from my play.

 

I agree the grind is steep, but last I heard there were more zombies than survivors online, which is another reason to allow zombie cooperation.  :)

Must have just had bad luck or something then, because I was still getting matched with people with grappling hooks and such even right after my first mutation while still level 1.

 

Honestly I'd be fine with having two weaker hunters being able to work together. As it stands, once you get to 3-4 people it just becomes a game of "Try to get that one desperate pick." (Unless they're.... not good, in which case it becomes a slaughterhouse) Hell, even having one person control a souped up feral while another is a hunter would be nice.

 

EDIT: And now that my rank is getting even higher, the shield blocking spit exploit is really starting to get on my nerves. Nothing says "chupacabra you" like landing a perfectly sniped spit stick and then just watching it do.... nothing.

Edited by Zoralink

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I still don't understand why they can't just release the update already.

 

Yeah, I've seen several people say "As long as it's in the game, I'm using it!" even when they know it's a bug.

 

Sad day.

 

Also holy mother of god please stop matching me against Russians. It's literally unplayable, when you do a ground pound, then die from a melee they apparently did as they're flying through the air 10 feet away.

 

EDIT: Been stumbling across a few hackers recently as well. Both had infinite UV/godmode, and one of them was using a speed hack. Seemed like he had infinite artillery flares as well on top of being able to one shot my nests. (The speed hacker) He tried to hide in one of the unreachable houses for the hunter for a good 30 minutes, kept trying to get me to quit by claiming he was going to sleep, then he was going to watch TV, then he supposedly muted me, then he resorted to calling in a friend to try to win.

 

Thankfully UV suppression spit + pounces saved in both games, because the people were terrible. The speed hacker game took a solid 38 minutes or something because of him hiding for the first 30 minutes. Ah well. I wasn't giving him the satisfaction of leaving, and I amused myself by telling tales of the sad little Korean boy who nobody liked so he hacked in Dying Light.

Edited by Zoralink

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My game got updated today but didn't note much change to BtZ. Has anybody been able to test whether shield exploit is fixed today? Found no matches as zombie (surprise, huh?) and only two matches as survivor, but since I never use shield, I'm clumsily unable to answer my own question.

 

Anyways, another thought I had belonging to "how to slightly modify BtZ without upsetting things, but still pushing incentive to play" category: it would do the nice maps of Dying Light more justice to change the nest locations up a bit more. This tweak does not influence balance question too much, nor does it seem hard to implement, but would force everybody out of routines, while we'd get to enjoy the fruits of already existing maps.

 

If one thinks about single player campaign, or merely does some walking around, it becomes obvious that a lot of nice spots on the maps, particularly the "outback of slums (North-West/North East)" are used very little and/or rarely.

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My game got updated today but didn't note much change to BtZ. Has anybody been able to test whether shield exploit is fixed today? Found no matches as zombie (surprise, huh?) and only two matches as survivor, but since I never use shield, I'm clumsily unable to answer my own question.

 

Anyways, another thought I had belonging to "how to slightly modify BtZ without upsetting things, but still pushing incentive to play" category: it would do the nice maps of Dying Light more justice to change the nest locations up a bit more. This tweak does not influence balance question too much, nor does it seem hard to implement, but would force everybody out of routines, while we'd get to enjoy the fruits of already existing maps.

 

If one thinks about single player campaign, or merely does some walking around, it becomes obvious that a lot of nice spots on the maps, particularly the "outback of slums (North-West/North East)" are used very little and/or rarely.

 

 

Unfortunately the bug is still there, dealt with several people still using it last night.

 

And yeah, some more nest spawns would be nice. As it is, there's only about 6 or so per map it seems like. If that.

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Unfortunately the bug is still there, dealt with several people still using it last night.

 

And yeah, some more nest spawns would be nice. As it is, there's only about 6 or so per map it seems like. If that.

 

Thanks for the info. Their stance towards the mode remains unclear as a simple statement like "we hear community complaints but are focusing all energy on bettering the mode with upcoming DLC" would lift the fog and substantiate the claim made by devs repeatedly, that they are serious in valuing community feedback to fix the game, as they did during the first months following launch. 

 

Even a future version of BtZ with upcoming DLC would be subject to the same question: "are they going to get the mode to a more or less balanced state with no game breaking exploits, or will survivors and hunters be subjected to similar frustrating experiences of having a fun game with unintended exploits that will remain indefinitely?"

 

Not like we're insisting on fancy features in this case... just posing the question whether the game mode will work and while I enjoy being part of a free experimental game mode, clarity on their commitment towards the game mode matters: combining the lack of news and fixes with the unfinished state is a formula that in the long run tends to multiply frustration, as the player base will be turned-off by the continuous question of whether they're parking their precious time with a mode that won't receive the necessary care to be fixed.

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Thanks for the info. Their stance towards the mode remains unclear as a simple statement like "we hear community complaints but are focusing all energy on bettering the mode with upcoming DLC" would lift the fog and substantiate the claim made by devs repeatedly, that they are serious in valuing community feedback to fix the game, as they did during the first months following launch. 

 

Even a future version of BtZ with upcoming DLC would be subject to the same question: "are they going to get the mode to a more or less balanced state with no game breaking exploits, or will survivors and hunters be subjected to similar frustrating experiences of having a fun game with unintended exploits that will remain indefinitely?"

 

Not like we're insisting on fancy features in this case... just posing the question whether the game mode will work and while I enjoy being part of a free experimental game mode, clarity on their commitment towards the game mode matters: combining the lack of news and fixes with the unfinished state is a formula that in the long run tends to multiply frustration, as the player base will be turned-off by the continuous question of whether they're parking their precious time with a mode that won't receive the necessary care to be fixed.

 

Yeah, the last few days have really been trying my patience with the mode. Between getting god mode/infinite UV/speed hackers, survivors who hide in safe houses, and survivors who hide between throwables, it's really getting old. All of this on top of the shield bug, the animation canceling to effectively one shot the hunter, and god awful lag issues, and my opinion of the mode is quickly going downhill. The fact that many of these have been issues since launch doesn't help my opinion of it either. (To be fair, I joined much later)

 

I'm actually typing this while waiting out a survivor who is hiding in an unreachable room, been in the game for about 15 minutes now. Why is this a thing Techland? At the least let us report people like this... Or perhaps if a survivor doesn't damage the night hunter or a zombie for something like 5 minutes (Even UV 'damage' could count), then it counts as a win for the night hunter, because they're clearly doing.... something. The more I play, the more I see why people say that the mode is for survivors to get more enjoyment out of the game at the night hunter's expense.

 

(And sorry that this thread has become sort of 'blog'-ish, doesn't seem worth making a new thread for all of this.)

 

EDIT: Another thing that would help make it a bit more fair in general would be making it so the med kits acted like they do in hard mode, where they heal over time rather than a huge chunk of health all at once. Pretty annoying to be clawing down a human as they're bandaging, have them at less than 10 health, then suddenly they're back up by a huge portion.

 

EDIT2: I really, really wish I could region lock.. I can't express this enough. Getting matched against people in New Zealand, when I'm East Coast USA.... Just... why? Even mediocre players can destroy a great hunter if he has 350+ ping and is playing over a second in the past.

Edited by Zoralink

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EDIT: Another thing that would help make it a bit more fair in general would be making it so the med kits acted like they do in hard mode, where they heal over time rather than a huge chunk of health all at once. Pretty annoying to be clawing down a human as they're bandaging, have them at less than 10 health, then suddenly they're back up by a huge portion.

 

That's the reason I play in Hard mode as survivor. I know what things look like from a hunter perspective and this is just basic decency... but it does get me in trouble with other survivors if people are in my game. Yesterday people started to hurl the usual abuse at me for keeping it in hard mode and I guess this will dissuade some survivors from joining my game in the future. The ranking system so sacred to many, does not take into account that my by now "dominant" survivor got there in hard mode and not by farming wins with instant heal but by learning from my losses. This is why I think there should be a quick pop up menu before each game where people agree on settings, their experience levels, even exploits and mods they consider fair. I don't mind being outmatched if game play is fluid, which takes us to your next point:

 

 

EDIT2: I really, really wish I could region lock.. I can't express this enough. Getting matched against people in New Zealand, when I'm East Coast USA.... Just... why? Even mediocre players can destroy a great hunter if he has 350+ ping and is playing over a second in the past.

 

Which is why I think both sides could have a quick handshake agreement concerning settings before a match, instead of a hunter invading no questions asked, which would include ping. We had a noob hunter doing magical stuff with huge lag yesterday, teleporting back and forth and being untouchable even after two of us sliced him up after missed ground pound (yes, we didn't miss at this point and heard the audio on our machines, but he just tendrilled away as if nothing). This would probably put a dent in amount of matches played, which is why this is unrealistic, but the matches played would reflect players' preferences and control a bit more. 

Edited by Chickeninja

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That's the reason I play in Hard mode as survivor. I know what things look like from a hunter perspective and this is just basic decency... but it does get me in trouble with other survivors if people are in my game. Yesterday people started to hurl the usual abuse at me for keeping it in hard mode and I guess this will dissuade some survivors from joining my game in the future. The ranking system so sacred to many, does not take into account that my by now "dominant" survivor got there in hard mode and not by farming wins with instant heal but by learning from my losses. This is why I think there should be a quick pop up menu before each game where people agree on settings, their experience levels, even exploits and mods they consider fair. I don't mind being outmatched if game play is fluid, which takes us to your next point:

 

 

 

Which is why I think both sides could have a quick handshake agreement concerning settings before a match, instead of a hunter invading no questions asked, which would include ping. We had a noob hunter doing magical stuff with huge lag yesterday, teleporting back and forth and being untouchable even after two of us sliced him up after missed ground pound (yes, we didn't miss at this point and heard the audio on our machines, but he just tendrilled away as if nothing). This would probably put a dent in amount of matches played, which is why this is unrealistic, but the matches played would reflect players' preferences and control a bit more. 

The hunter one honestly sounds more like a hacker/modder to me, due to the fact that the hunter is primarily at the mercy of the hosting survivor due to them local hosting every time.

 

I don't think I've ever seen someone on hard mode in an invasion, actually... :(

 

Honestly I'd be happy if I could just see actual pings in the server browser, the useless 4 bar system does not help at all. The difference between a one bar connection to someone in California, or a 1 bar connection to someone in China is massive but it treats them the same.

 

And there really shouldn't be a need to have to agree to 'acceptable' exploits and bugs, they should just be fixed. The fact that the shield bug was acknowledged in August but still hasn't been fixed is insane to me.

 

EDIT: Also I finally hit mutation 3 and yet I'm still getting matched with maxed out survivors.

 

....Fun times. I can only pray there won't be a fourth mutation with the Following.

 

EDIT2: So sad to join a game and hear people go "Yay, finally a good hunter!"

 

Nope, sorry guys, when I'm level 6 but the matchmaker still pairs me with you there ain't chupacabra I can do. Thank god I'm on the final mutation now.

 

I've also hit the point where a few people leave the match as soon as I join because I eat their faces too hard, also because I don't put up with them hiding in their exploit areas and actually wait them out. Not sure how to feel about this.

 

EDIT3: And then in my final game of the night I stumble across a newer player who is being incredibly nice about everything and even admits that he loses all the time to night hunters but when I apologize for mauling him he just goes "It's okay :)" WHY DO THEY DO THIS WITH NEWER MUTATIONS WHY.

 

Can't win either way.

 

EDIT4: Aaaaaand I get thrown into a game twice where the survivors instantly killed all of my nests.

Edited by Zoralink

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EDIT4: Aaaaaand I get thrown into a game twice where the survivors instantly killed all of my nests.

 

Before I upgraded my video card and was able to record my matches, I got a match that lasted exactly 0.0 seconds long according to the summary dialog.  All nests destroyed before i hit the ground.

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Before I upgraded my video card and was able to record my matches, I got a match that lasted exactly 0.0 seconds long according to the summary dialog.  All nests destroyed before i hit the ground.

 

That's exactly what happened.

 

I quickjoin after and get thrown in with them again and they start killing the nests (2 are dead before I even land) and suddenly they start accusing me of trying to 'boost' them, likely pathetically trying to hide what they're doing.

 

When I reach them they have infinite UV, god mode, and speed hacking on.

 

Yep, clearly I'm trying to boost you guys. 

 

eye roll

 

From the looks of it, it was caused by a time of day changer, since the sky started flickering like mad when it happened.

Edited by Zoralink

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