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larskei

We Are Supposed To Fear The Hunter? Not Run After Him

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Many say on this forum that the hunter is too weak, and I agree to a extreme extent that the Human player is extremely overpowered, for one, the player can dodge our tackles, however, I personally have never dodged one as a hunter, including that the UV light is EXTREMELY Overpowered, in that it is basically the infinite shield that no hunter can penetrate. Players can chase and run after the Hunter, drop off the howl screen, and keep killing us. To solve this simply give us what our only way of attack is! LET US DO THE SAME, Hunters should be able to do the exact same thing, this would drastically even it out, until the UV light gets a dramatic range cut, and battery life Nerf. Another reason to be concerned for is that we should be able to get contact or air burst spits! Over 3/4 of all of my spits do nothing because players just simply dodge them. On the other hand! the UV SUPPRESSION spit should suppress all UV light a player can produce for that period of time, OR just make it so that flares take a extremely larger amount of resources to make, and cannot deploy them near nests, or within 20 seconds from being hit with a anti-UV spit. To say that the player is extremely overpowered in all ways is a understatement! The Hunter is supposed to be the most agile, fastest, toughest creature out there, so why is it that a player can kill me in two hits with a simple garden sickle? Yet it takes me over SIX regular hits with Razor sharp claws!? Honestly if I were to put a rating on how good multiplayer is as a zombie from 1-10, 1 being the absolute worst, and 10 being the best ever, this game deserves a 2. The pounce attack is extremely easy to counter, UV lights should not be able to be turned on when you are reloading a weapon, fixing a weapon, or whenever you are jumping or on a wall. The UV light has a immensely over powered and over used range that quite frankly doesn't need to exist within 10% of what it can now. 

 

A Hunter's best ally is surprise, and with survivor sense being able to see basically infinitely, and every time we howl they see us, it totally demolishes our entire aspect of being hunters, our powers are no match for that of a human, and this needs to be fixed soon, because it is making me EXTREMELY hate this game, I can only imagine how many others feel the same way.

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I have been reading many threads here of people complaining how unbalanced the game is and most of the perspectives come from players who play as hunters. I got over 1000 hours in the game both as human and hunter, i don't agree that humans are overpowered all time, the main problem here is that when you start as hunter, gaining the skills from scratch is hard as hell specially when playing with experienced human players and in the beginning you will loose several matches, but once the hunter has reached it's full potential, all skills are unlocked and you become pretty good at it you will win most matches against humans. So that being said, not much players are persistent or patient enough to fully level the hunter and instead they begin complaining about how unbalanced it is.

 

I had tried doing 1vs1 against some of the hardest hunters out there and several times i had been defeated, mostly because those highly experienced hunters have tactics that require a teammate covering your back, so that's where the full potential of the hunter resides, hunter is meant to do offensive, human is meant to do defensive.

 

There are some pretty good hunters out there that can take out a team of some of the most experienced human players, if its so unbalanced how can this hunters beat all of those experienced human players?

 

I agree leveling up the hunter and gaining experience its very hard from the begging, more than it is for the human, but at the end those professional hunters demonstrate that the hunter can easily keep up with the humans and defeat them. Cases of a truly unbalanced game play is a low level hunter against high level humans or a high level hunter against a low level humans, so before you complain try to fully level your hunter and make sure you also got enough experience as human so you can have enough perspectives from both sides.

 

Something pretty annoying i can tell you when i play as human are those hunters abusing the ground pound with spits as they combine it with the uv shield and its an instant death for human, the way bombers/hazmats get spawned on safe zones, water and high buildings or they spawn right on you and the recent tweaks Techland did, make myself getting a flare cool down after i throw a second flare, pretty annoying.

 

Here i will describe a case i had come across while fighting experienced hunters:

 

Hunter tries to tackle me i evade tackle, immediately he uses ground pound with uv spits, I get my uv disabled i throw a flare and the hunter quickly ground pounds on my flare, next he uses somehow uv heal to quickly recover from the missed ground pound, i throw a second flare to prevent the hunter from pouncing me, but he uses uv block and ground pounds on my second flare and i just simply cannot throw a third flare because of this great cool downs and hunter can now easily pounce me after that.

 

So hunters aren't all that under powered as many claim.

 

Also i have seen humans who love to change their role as humans and become hunters by hunting down the hunter, but trust me those humans can only do that with low level or inexperienced hunters, high level hunters with experience can easily pounce/kill those humans trying to chase them.

 

I disagree that the UV Flashlight is overpowered, UV its the only defense human has against hunters and you cannot always expect to win, sometimes you loose others you win, there players with less experience than you just like there are players with more experience.

Edited by Player_098765

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I have been reading many threads here of people complaining how unbalanced is the game and most of the perspectives come from players who play as hunters.

 

i got over 1000 hours in the game both as human and hunter, i don't agree that humans are overpowered all time, the main problem here is that when you start as hunter gaining the skills from scratch is hard as hell specially when playing with experienced human players and in the beginning you will loose several matches, but once the hunter has reached it's full potential, all skills are unlocked and you become pretty good at it you will win most matches against humans.

 

So that being said, not much players are persistent or patient enough to fully level the hunter and began complaining about how unbalanced it is.

 

I had tried doing 1vs1 against some of the hardest hunters out there and many times i had been defeated, mostly because those highly experienced hunters have tactics that require a teammate covering your back, so thats where the full potential of the hunter resides, hunter is meant to do offensive, human is meant to do defensive.

 

There are some pretty good hunters out there that can take out a team of some of the most experienced human players, if its so unbalanced how can this hunters beat all of those experienced human players?

 

I agree leveling up the hunter and gaining experience its very hard from the begging, more than it is for the human, but the end those professional hunters demonstrate that the hunter can easily keep up with the humans and even defeat them.

 

Cases of a truly unbalanced game play is a low level hunter against a high level human or a high level hunter against a low level human.

 

So before you complain try to fully level your hunter and make sure you also got enough experience as human so you can have enough perspectives from both sides.

 

 

Something pretty annoying i can tell you when i play as human are those hunters abusing the ground pound with spits as they combine the uv shield and its an instant death for human, the way bombers/hazmats get spawned on safezones, water and high buildings or they spawn right on you and the recent tweaks Techland did, make myself getting a flare cool down after i throw a second flare, pretty annoying.

 

I get my uv disabled i throw a flare and the hunter quickly comes and ground pounds on it while using uv heal to quickly recover from a missed ground pound, i throw a second flare to prevent the hunter from pouncing me, they use uv block and ground pound on my second flare and i just simply cannot throw a third flare because of this great cool downs and i'm dead.

 

 

Also i have seen humans who love to change their role as humans and become hunters by hunting down the hunter, but trust me those humans can only do that with low level or inexperienced hunters, high level hunters with experience wipe them out.

 

 

I disagree that the UV Flashlight is overpowered, UV its the only defense human has against hunters and you cannot always expect to win, sometimes you loose others you win, there players with less experience than you just like there are players with more experience.

Finally someone who actually has played the game enough to know this. Without the exploits, like shield glitch and stuff like that the game is pretty good balanced. 

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I had tried doing 1vs1 against some of the hardest hunters out there and several times i had been defeated, mostly because those highly experienced hunters have tactics that require a teammate covering your back, so that's where the full potential of the hunter resides, hunter is meant to do offensive, human is meant to do defensive.

 

There are some pretty good hunters out there that can take out a team of some of the most experienced human players, if its so unbalanced how can this hunters beat all of those experienced human players?

 

...

 

Something pretty annoying i can tell you when i play as human are those hunters abusing the ground pound with spits as they combine it with the uv shield and its an instant death for human, the way bombers/hazmats get spawned on safe zones, water and high buildings or they spawn right on you and the recent tweaks Techland did, make myself getting a flare cool down after i throw a second flare, pretty annoying.

 

Here i will describe a case i had come across while fighting experienced hunters:

 

Hunter tries to tackle me i evade tackle, immediately he uses ground pound with uv spits, I get my uv disabled i throw a flare and the hunter quickly ground pounds on my flare, next he uses somehow uv heal to quickly recover from the missed ground pound, i throw a second flare to prevent the hunter from pouncing me, but he uses uv block and ground pounds on my second flare and i just simply cannot throw a third flare because of this great cool downs and hunter can now easily pounce me after that.

 

...

 

Also i have seen humans who love to change their role as humans and become hunters by hunting down the hunter, but trust me those humans can only do that with low level or inexperienced hunters, high level hunters with experience can easily pounce/kill those humans trying to chase them.

 

...

 

I disagree that the UV Flashlight is overpowered, UV its the only defense human has against hunters and you cannot always expect to win, sometimes you loose others you win, there players with less experience than you just like there are players with more experience.

 

Whether someone is good or not is subjective. Skill shouldn't be used to determine balance, that should be based on what's possible in the current meta for both sides. And currently survivors have the advantage although that gap has been shortened greatly since the release of the game.

 

Spit slams are not at all unfair. Consider how much it takes just to get one. In 1v1 setting it takes almost 2 minutes to regenerate one spit. That's about 4 minutes total of not using spits before a spit slam is even possible. Given how difficult it is to fight without spits and how long you have to wait I'd say it's a fair tradeoff for a garuanteed kill. Look at death from above in comparison, you only need to be bus height level in order to pull it off and it's an unblockable instant kill against the night hunter with a fair amount of magnetism. Also In a match with more than one player you always have someone watching your back so it becomes more difficult to get a spit slam off unless you get everyone at once. 

 

Ground pound after a miss tackle or pounce was something that recently got added. It used to be pretty stupid when things like this happened, you were basically dead if you miscalculated any pounce or tackle.

 

Survivors can be aggressive without being stupid. The ones who rush headfirst without thinking are usually the ones to turn around and complain about the night hunter being OP. They die because they do stupid things like jump off a bridge trying to DfA a night hunter while he's in their blind spot (I get kills like this all the time).

 

Yes I also agree the UV light is fine now. I'm amazed people are complaining about it when it was 10x times worst just before the last patch (here too). At least now there's a startup cost and increased recovery. The most recent range nerf allows you to stay perched on top of buildings without having a UV light from street level push you away. You can now stalk properly.

Edited by jcks

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Whether someone is good or not is subjective. Skill shouldn't be used to determine balance, that should be based on what's possible in the current meta for both sides. And currently survivors have the advantage although that gap has been shortened greatly since the release of the game.

 

I will have to disagree on this one, experience is vital to fully learn how to take advantage of everything the game has to offer, it would be so unfair that a player with just 5 minutes of game play could beat another player with a 1000 hours of game play.

 

Everything on this life is about experience/skills/abilities, take this for example:

 

A worker with 30 years of experience will have more experience than a new worker that just came out of college.

 

Same thing happens on every game, the solution to this will be that the game could only offer matches with players who have a similar level of experience and not matches with players who have way more experience than yourself.

 

 ----

 

 

Spit slams are not at all unfair. Consider how much it takes just to get one. In 1v1 setting it takes almost 2 minutes to regenerate one spit. That's about 4 minutes total of not using spits before a spit slam is even possible. Given how difficult it is to fight without spits and how long you have to wait I'd say it's a fair tradeoff for a garuanteed kill. Look at death from above in comparison, you only need to be bus height level in order to pull it off and it's an unblockable instant kill against the night hunter with a fair amount of magnetism. Also In a match with more than one player you always have someone watching your back so it becomes more difficult to get a spit slam off unless you get everyone at once.

 

Good hunters can avoid drop attacks/rain death from above most of the times and in case you haven't noticed it can be blocked sometimes if you have full your energy bar and try pounce at the same time the human that is falling down to do the drop attack, if successful the drop attack will be interrupted by the pounce animation whether it is blocked with the flashlight or not.

 

I have enough experience on both sides just to tell you that not in all matches with more than 1 player you will necessarily have someone covering your back, like you well said:

 

The ones who rush headfirst without thinking are usually the ones to turn around and complain about the night hunter being OP when they die because they do stupid things like jump off a bridge trying to DfA a night hunter while he's in their blind spot (I get kills like this all the time).

Players like that don't always cover your back as they are busy doing "stupid things", now when you play as human and players of this type join your match its pretty frustrating because more than helping you they help the hunter, only when you play with good human players that know the definition of "teamwork" is when you truly get someone covering your back most of the times after a spit smash or any other type of situations.

 

----

 

 

Yes I also agree the UV light is fine now. I'm amazed people are complaining about it when it was 10x times worst just before the last patch (here too). At least now there's a startup cost and increased recovery. The most recent range nerf allows you to stay perched on top of buildings without having a UV light from street level push you away. You can now stalk properly.

You are right on this one too, prior versions of the game the human did actually used to be truly OP (overpowered), like humans could throw as many flares as they wanted without a cool down, now the game is more balanced than it was before, but Techland still needs to work on some other details to finally balance the game properly.

 

 

 

Now it will be great if the developers of Dying Light could at least read the threads once a week to spot those errors that are affecting many users and the game play itself, it would be great if Techland could listen to their customers, i see many threads that have been created here in this forum and i see the minority of those threads with an answer from a Techland representative/moderator/community manager.

 

Is it that Techland doesn't care about it's customers? Is it that they have a different agenda?

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I agree leveling up the hunter and gaining experience its very hard from the begging, more than it is for the human... so before you complain try to fully level your hunter and make sure you also got enough experience as human so you can have enough perspectives from both sides.

 

But that's just it: fully leveling the hunter implies, with your definition, 1000s hours of playing survivor and hunter, before which nobody can claim to "properly play the hunter" or even have the necessary experience to assess their game play. This is perhaps elitist imho and never having argued for small groups of high level hunters who's games hardly ever show up online, most agree that everybody should enjoy game play with a leveled hunter after having completed the game. The old-school Christian attitude reflected in the leveling tree of the hunter is medieval: "be a good Christian Hunter first, eat all your vegetables for 1000 hours, then you can have the features unlocked for the game you payed for."

 

This forces the players who want to be the zombie to pay for wanting unlocked skills of the full character. And yes, this has placed/places many hunter players, into dozens of matches against survivors into imbalanced scenarios without a chance. That is a formula for frustration, if one is not ready to throw in thousands of hours or force friends to help level up. Sure, I can see how the formula keeps the game mode alive because the naive hunters with no skills will keep coming back to level up and man their stations for the masses that are new to the game, collect their pounces and 2000 XP, but they will feel the game is imbalanced. And I don't blame them for that assessment and anger. I can see it as true from their point of view just as much as I can see high level hunters and survivors seeing things to be balanced with 1000 hours of play.

 

To me, the opinion of a guy that has played a few hours is equivalent to opinion of somebody having played 10000 hours. Otherwise, you have only the opinion of "the best/strongest" that matters, and everybody knows that is problematic because where would the "best" be without the rest? Doesn't valuing only "best/fittest" lead to exclusive rewarding of bullies and tyrants? Do people really want to frequent communities with their time if everybody plays for the vanity of a couple of folks with 1000s hours of experience? Why would a hunter with 100 hours of experience want to take on survivors with a 1000 hours of experience? I have no problem losing, but asking people to lose for 1000 hours "to see the balanced state of the game", is also the kind of thing people would say to defend an imbalanced game. That is the problem with competence as an argument: somebody can always say that you should spent 100000 hours more in the game to see their point.

 

Finally someone who actually has played the game enough to know this. Without the exploits, like shield glitch and stuff like that the game is pretty good balanced. 

 

The exploits have been reported since this summer. And yes, without the imperfections the game would be perfect.

 

Imho the artificial culture of competition distorts what is well... a game and not a professional sport to most (if hunters are being paid to hunt please PM me :D ). And while this is an understandable confusion, as you want people to feel accomplishment, I think that people know what is fun for them and know whether the game feels balanced or not from their pov. Perhaps forcing others to accept our points of view on such matter as "objective truth" may veer in danger of an elitism that ultimately may cut off everybody who doesn't have thousands of hours to invest, ending up frustrating those that only have a hundred or so hours. Reducing games to "pure skill" is perhaps part of what kills the fun.

 

I know I'd have more fun if people took themselves and the game less seriously, for example some simple system that would allow people to select objectives they find acceptable, what kind of survivor/hunter level they feel ready to battle with, which inventories in which game world are fair or constitute a fair handicap for a weaker party... as such a system would stop forcing people into frustrating situations they don't want to play, therefore exerting more control over their game play experience. But that's just me: small opinion of one voice in a sea of players' voices.

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by 50-60 hours in a decent player can reach mutation three with a maxed skill tree, this guy is just saying he has loads of experience and you guys are just splitting hairs. everything he said was true in my experience, far too much whinning going on in these forums, its really frustrating.

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by 50-60 hours in a decent player can reach mutation three with a maxed skill tree, this guy is just saying he has loads of experience and you guys are just splitting hairs. everything he said was true in my experience, far too much whinning going on in these forums, its really frustrating.

 

I'd say you are perhaps a bit quick here as there are arguments to both scrap multiplayer competitive scenarios in modern games and arguments to keep them going. Every studio handles them differently and there is no simple right or wrong with these questions as your post seems to imply. Then again, the way you communicate suggests it is ok to make blanket statements about the whole community or openly imply others to be "whiners", so it is hard to parse what you really argue for through all the insults and transparent side taking.

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I will have to disagree on this one, experience is vital to fully learn how to take advantage of everything the game has to offer, it would be so unfair that a player with just 5 minutes of game play could beat another player with a 1000 hours of game play.

 

Everything on this life is about experience/skills/abilities, take this for example:

 

A worker with 30 years of experience will have more experience than a new worker that just came out of college.

 

This is a fascinating topic and I agree partially.

 

Yes, the worker with 30 years of experience has more experience/competence, but the price often paid for this is intelligence and flexibility. You can see this perhaps with older people who have not worked with computers for example: they may be incredibly competent at some fine traditional skill, but when computers change the work space, their skills and routines can turn out to be the problem; the problem that makes them think they are already good at something and therefore resistant to changes in the work environment, such as the introduction of computers or some other game changer. In such settings, it might even be more efficient to take a total beginner that does not have that resistance.

 

Because somehow yes, you need intelligence to develop competence but the relation is not so easily reversible, because time and the building of histories is not that reversible. There is a point where competence causes negative feedback on intelligence, as habits and routines get established that become harder to unlearn, precisely because they appeared biologically advantageous or convincing before.

 

But the environment keeps changing, where "skill" becomes a fluid ever fluctuating question instead of fixed answer. In this kind of view, a baby is maximally intelligent in virtue of its possible accessible futures, even if it has zero competence. Adults become somehow the opposite: competent but incredibly stupid, even if they get lucky sometimes, with lower amount of possible accessible futures. A game is just the agreement that the environment stays stable with the same rules; it is a fiction of adults to simplify reality for fun.

 

We may disagree on whether the game is balanced; personally, the game is too chaotic and complex for me to be convinced in either direction. But if anybody has a huge amount of experience and wants to share notes and show their skills, I will surely be in the back row, watch the videos, read the posts, and take good notes to watch that I don't get killed too often, lol. :rolleyes: Preference to lazy efficiency over work.

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Come back and try to tell me this game is balanced, I will get the best human player I know and put him against you in a match. I agree with the part that its hard as hell to get skills and stuff but that isn't the only problem. I feel  like theres a goddamn tracking device on the hunter leaving no surprise attacks at all what so ever. I've played matches where I couldn't even attack because as soon as the human player heard or saw me on his screen he would dodge away like there was no tomorrow. Hunters can pounce but its so easily lost because humans can easily illuminate you with light that the pounce is almost negligible any more.

I hardly ever get to have a successful pounce any more. It almost makes it seem like the leap frog skill was a complete waste because I've probably only done it like 3 times since the game came out.

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Tell me what sort of experience can be used here?

 

Great compilation!

 

0:13 tackle fail. I've had this happen or if survivors are hunched together the hunter tackles an unintended survivor. You should have had that tackle, but MAYBE your ally zombie was in the way

 

0:30 Ground Pound fail, when gp's not hitting the player at all or only send them flying less than a meter, the ground pound doesn't work at all! Other experienced users have reported this as well, where the gp is triggered, the hunter lands near players expecting a gp, and NOTHING HAPPENS. For you, the gp worked and the player was not hit at all! Lol@techland

 

0:50 hunter vs 1 survivor isn't too hard anymore when a survivor can aimlessly swing a weapon and still hit you. When the Hunter needs to run/escape (doesn't sound like a Hunter anymore), I've had similar happen where I was hit/killed by a swinging weapon despite being considerable distance away from the survivor.

 

1:01 tackle fail: likely if the tackle would have sent the survivor flying (like I said above about gp fail, I'd imagine you have tackle+ skill unlocked) you wouldn't have gotten death from above which should have been blocked from the gp, but no, that would be too balanced

 

 

Btw jonnyallen3 is a serial cheater on ps4, I've played against him. Interesting how he rages when he loses, so he cheats all the time.

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