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Out Of Curiosity

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Now MOST of us know how BTZ is broken, at least from my perspective, I don't want to object anyone because they are entitled to their own opinion. So, out of my curiosity and maybe out of others, have any of you guys on the forums talked to the devs or have a little evidence for the gamemode to be a improved in the future? 

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Devs aren't on as much as they used to be but they promised a BtZ patch with the next major update of the game. So far our only confirmed changes are fixes for the shield exploit and timeout zones for campers who glitch in impossible sections on the map.

Edited by jcks

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I have previously spoke to Michal about the Issues surrounding Balance of Be The Zombie.  

 

Michal Confirmed that the DEV Team are well aware of the Current Issues and Complaints. And that Fixes are Incoming.

 

But said Fixes are no Easy Task. As changes like this have to be carefully metered so as not to further upset the Balance of Be The Zombie.

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I think balance shouldn't the primary goal.  Fun play should the goal.  Making the melee and attacks make sense should be the goal  Once the game play makes sense and the attacks are logically, then worry about balance.

 

For instance, the melee attack is a joke compared to the other abilities.  The Night Hunter zombie is so powerful that its leaps have crazy distance, it can smack the ground with such force as to knock back objects weighting a couple of hundred pounds, can gallop at a pretty good speed, and can fall from any distance without damage.  Yet, when it comes actual melee it's less effective than a human.  Even though it has massive claws, mano a mano versus a human it losses, embarrassingly so.  What?!  It's less than a human in speed and damage.  Doesn't make sense.

 

The NH should be super strong to go against head-to-head.  It should be feared.

 

Balance can then be achieved in match goals.  Much like the adjustments in the number of spawn per nest to kill in relation to the number of humans in the match, other match goals can be used to bring balance to the end result: the winner of the match.

 

By looking at the inventory and match history of each survivor a type of score can be determined.  Someone who brings or has a large inventory of devices and weapons in the match could be deemed to have a higher score, thus making it hard for them.  This could incentivize not bringing your 9,999 dupped items into the match.  Two handed weapons, gold weapons, any weapon gained outside the campaign, etc. would be a higher score.  Your rank would be a directly proportional to difficulty.

 

Balance is achieved with the HP of each spawn, number of spawn per nest, distance between nests, number and aggression of zombies, types of zombies, cool down periods, etc.

 

Additional mechanisms could be brought into play including a total score value of items in a match.  You could have different UV lights with different point values that relate to cool down and power.  Your weapons would have different point values as would your defensive devices like flares and shields. Same with your grapple hook: different speeds and distances.  You are afforded a set point value and you can adjust your gear to suit your desired style of play: aggressive and offensive versus conservative and defensive.  This would not preclude one from adjusting and restocking in a safe house.  Your inherent speed and stamina would be dependent on your loadout.  A full loadout would slow you down a bit while being light will get you a bit of a boost.

 

This "loadout score" could be adjusted to help bring balance.  A player that can carry more or better gear will be more formidable.

 

I think the nerfing the actual combat of the NH is what turns me off the mode most.  Wading through a couple million XP to get maxed out only to not be much more dangerous than I was as a Mutation 0 Nh is depressing.

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I think balance shouldn't the primary goal.  Fun play should the goal.  Making the melee and attacks make sense should be the goal  Once the game play makes sense and the attacks are logically, then worry about balance.

 

For instance, the melee attack is a joke compared to the other abilities.  The Night Hunter zombie is so powerful that its leaps have crazy distance, it can smack the ground with such force as to knock back objects weighting a couple of hundred pounds, can gallop at a pretty good speed, and can fall from any distance without damage.  Yet, when it comes actual melee it's less effective than a human.  Even though it has massive claws, mano a mano versus a human it losses, embarrassingly so.  What?!  It's less than a human in speed and damage.  Doesn't make sense.

 

The NH should be super strong to go against head-to-head.  It should be feared.

 

Balance can then be achieved in match goals.  Much like the adjustments in the number of spawn per nest to kill in relation to the number of humans in the match, other match goals can be used to bring balance to the end result: the winner of the match.

 

By looking at the inventory and match history of each survivor a type of score can be determined.  Someone who brings or has a large inventory of devices and weapons in the match could be deemed to have a higher score, thus making it hard for them.  This could incentivize not bringing your 9,999 dupped items into the match.  Two handed weapons, gold weapons, any weapon gained outside the campaign, etc. would be a higher score.  Your rank would be a directly proportional to difficulty.

 

Balance is achieved with the HP of each spawn, number of spawn per nest, distance between nests, number and aggression of zombies, types of zombies, cool down periods, etc.

 

Additional mechanisms could be brought into play including a total score value of items in a match.  You could have different UV lights with different point values that relate to cool down and power.  Your weapons would have different point values as would your defensive devices like flares and shields. Same with your grapple hook: different speeds and distances.  You are afforded a set point value and you can adjust your gear to suit your desired style of play: aggressive and offensive versus conservative and defensive.  This would not preclude one from adjusting and restocking in a safe house.  Your inherent speed and stamina would be dependent on your loadout.  A full loadout would slow you down a bit while being light will get you a bit of a boost.

 

This "loadout score" could be adjusted to help bring balance.  A player that can carry more or better gear will be more formidable.

 

I think the nerfing the actual combat of the NH is what turns me off the mode most.  Wading through a couple million XP to get maxed out only to not be much more dangerous than I was as a Mutation 0 Nh is depressing.

All weapons do equal damage to nighthunters though, no matter if its grey or gold. And i hate the idea of anything being based on inventory, not fair

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It's not just the NH the humans have to fight.  Two handed weapons can kill in one hit and from a distance.  Guns and bows offer kills out of range for a NH, not to mention spawn killers from a distance (negating toxic spit protection.)  Also, guns used when NH is tendrilling away with your 8 HP from being two-hit in melee.  Molotovs are denial weapons not dislike flares.   Various inventories are quite useful for battle against the NH.  Buffing the NH to something reasonable and then adjusting other elements would make game play make more sense and more enjoyable.  Players would have to be more strategic in their loadouts and tailor it to their style of play versus just having everything at their disposal all at once.

 

It would be interesting to know what the weight of all of the items a player is carrying at any one time.  Some, I suspect, would require a couple of semi trucks to carry it all.

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I have previously spoke to Michal about the Issues surrounding Balance of Be The Zombie.  

 

Michal Confirmed that the DEV Team are well aware of the Current Issues and Complaints. And that Fixes are Incoming.

 

But said Fixes are no Easy Task. As changes like this have to be carefully metered so as not to further upset the Balance of Be The Zombie.

 

Finally, a bit of news. Thanks for sharing it as it shows perhaps a possible disconnect between community and teams working on BtZ. They appear to assume the mode to be balanced enough to a satisfying level to exhibit concerns "to not further upset the Balance of Be The Zombie", whereas the community seems to think that Humans are OP.

 

The problem is perhaps, from community pov, and I am open and happy to be proven wrong on this, the community doesn't see evidence of the kind of Hunter play that would evenly match a group of high level survivors. And indeed, I am open to the idea that my game could be bettered (I don't take internal game rankings and titles as seriously because it has little to do with enjoying the game, learning to better skills, or even describe the "quality" of other players), but I don't come across many examples of Hunters winning such matches. Not in my games and not on the internet, where "How to Hunt Hunter" or "How to Kill Night Hunters" videos are a dime a dozen.

 

For example, I remember some video by developers playing BtZ. That kind of thing could help people get a grasp on more high-level mechanics for advanced players. Unfortunately, I only saw one such video and the Humans still won quite easily before all the patches. Balanced enough means that a Hunter can really hold their own against a group of High Level survivors with huge, advanced inventories. At this time, I see a hunter getting in a few kills at the most, but not being able to beat such a group on PC without a lot of luck and would gladly be proven wrong and learn how to better my play.

 

If that evidence doesn't surface and "How to kill the Hunter videos" remain the standard, then I'll stand with the majority of the community and stick with the evaluation that the mode isn't balanced and that buffing the hunter or permitting 2 Hunter lobby etc. would be valid ways to have more fun and excitement in the game.  

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I have recently started Playing the Story Mode again from the Start.  And it is a refresing experience, as Crane is not All Powerful.

 

  • Limited Battle Stamina.
  • Limited Sprint. 
  • Low Health.
  • No Grapple.

 

 

This leads Me to the Conclusion that this is a Part of the Problem  with "Be The Zombie" Given that Crane with All Abilities and Equipment is Overpowered because:

 

  • Infinite Battle Stamina.
  • Infinite Sprint.
  • High Health.
  • Grapple.

 

Now im not Suggesting for one moment that Crane be Returned to a Begining of Game State. But i think it would be benificial to the Enjoyment of Both Human Players and the Night Hunter Players if some Middle Ground could be met.

 

  • Remove Unlimited Sprint from All Humans.
  • Melee Attacks should Cost some Stamina and cause Tiredness if used to much.
  • All Power Attacks should cost Stamina and be subject to a Cooldown [Drop Kick] [Tackle].
  • Climbing, Jumping Down should cost some Stamina.
  • Night Hunter Health should be Buffed and be able to withstand more Hits. [More Players = More Health]
  • Grapple should have Limited Use or be Subject to a Cooldown.
  • Loud Noises should Attract Trouble, IE Volatiles, Virals?
Edited by Chaos_Deception

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I'm not sure if I agree with having Crane have different abilities in versus out of a match.  Players get into a rhythm and changing things up will throw that rhythm off.  I know I wouldn't want that to happen.

 

Of course, you can change the damage amounts of weapons as it's not directly related to the HP damage of the weapons.  The amount of drainage the UV lights have could be based on real world inverse square law and a slight drainage does not prevent or interrupt a pounce.  This way the only people who can interrupt a pounce is the victim themselves and players very close.  A microsecond of a UV light from 100 meters away won't prevent or interrupt a pounce.  This would make players stick tight to a group to cover each other thus being more vulnerable to spits.

 

I think it would have to be changing the Night Hunter.  Buffing it to counter the OPness of the human.  As mentioned numerous times, get rid of GP punishment on extinguishing flares, get rid of stuck in animation of a missed pounce or tackle until you hit the ground, increase speed and damage of swipes, add berserk mode when UV stamina is depleted, increase spits, separate spits to each type, and increase spit recharge rate, and get rid of the reviving of players.  Some of these changes are drastic like separating the spits, ridding the reviving, and removing missed punishments while other are simply tweaks that could probably be handled with a flip of a switch in HQ.  Adding these buffs will make the NH feared again and not farmed like cattle.

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If it's a bad player, kick'em.  I see it a lot.  A bad player that's always down it easily going to be killed by a good NH, anyway.  I know I target weak players.  I'll even go as afar as luring good players away, make a big circle keeping the good players following, and then go after the easy prey before the good players can get back.  Then I'll go after them when they respawn to lure the good players away from the nests.  Anything to keep players away from the nests.

 

OTOH, battling a player and have them down only to be forced away by another player and then a third player revives them...  Death as 1 player or more players should be no different.

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so your solution is to add a free kill to the nighthunters score by kicking new players, and sticking the new player with a defeat that counts against his rank? just wow. if they are easily going to be killed when down by a "good" nighthunter, then what is the point of this ridiculous idea anyway? I already stated a few claw swipes can kill the downed player anyhow. you don't play as a survivor often, do you?

Edited by TouchTheInfinite

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I have recently started Playing the Story Mode again from the Start.  And it is a refresing experience, as Crane is not All Powerful.

 

  • Limited Battle Stamina.
  • Limited Sprint. 
  • Low Health.
  • No Grapple.

 

 

This leads Me to the Conclusion that this is a Part of the Problem  with "Be The Zombie" Given that Crane with All Abilities and Equipment is Overpowered because:

 

  • Infinite Battle Stamina.
  • Infinite Sprint.
  • High Health.
  • Grapple.

 

Now im not Suggesting for one moment that Crane be Returned to a Begining of Game State. But i think it would be benificial to the Enjoyment of Both Human Players and the Night Hunter Players if some Middle Ground could be met.

 

  • Remove Unlimited Sprint from All Humans.
  • Melee Attacks should Cost some Stamina and cause Tiredness if used to much.
  • All Power Attacks should cost Stamina and be subject to a Cooldown [Drop Kick] [Tackle].
  • Climbing, Jumping Down should cost some Stamina.
  • Night Hunter Health should be Buffed and be able to withstand more Hits. [More Players = More Health]
  • Grapple should have Limited Use or be Subject to a Cooldown.
  • Loud Noises should Attract Trouble, IE Volatiles, Virals?

 

 

 

I would say keep the unlimited stamina for melee attacks. Between the night hunter, zombies/virals and nests the survivors have a lot of things to focus on attacking. Having them micromanage stamina on top of that would be more of a burden on their end.

 

However I completely agree with power attacks and special attacks requiring stamina. They have very little risk as is and huge rewards (non-blockable, instant death, 2x power, etc).

 

I'm not sure if I agree with having Crane have different abilities in versus out of a match.  Players get into a rhythm and changing things up will throw that rhythm off.  I know I wouldn't want that to happen.

 

Of course, you can change the damage amounts of weapons as it's not directly related to the HP damage of the weapons.  The amount of drainage the UV lights have could be based on real world inverse square law and a slight drainage does not prevent or interrupt a pounce.  This way the only people who can interrupt a pounce is the victim themselves and players very close.  A microsecond of a UV light from 100 meters away won't prevent or interrupt a pounce.  This would make players stick tight to a group to cover each other thus being more vulnerable to spits.

 

I think it would have to be changing the Night Hunter.  Buffing it to counter the OPness of the human.  As mentioned numerous times, get rid of GP punishment on extinguishing flares, get rid of stuck in animation of a missed pounce or tackle until you hit the ground, increase speed and damage of swipes, add berserk mode when UV stamina is depleted, increase spits, separate spits to each type, and increase spit recharge rate, and get rid of the reviving of players.  Some of these changes are drastic like separating the spits, ridding the reviving, and removing missed punishments while other are simply tweaks that could probably be handled with a flip of a switch in HQ.  Adding these buffs will make the NH feared again and not farmed like cattle.

 

Getting rid of revives sounds a little too harsh. The problem with them now is they last so damn long, 30 seconds I believe. A lot can happen within amount of time.

 

There was an idea someone posted a while ago that about each down taking half a life on the survivor side. I actually agree with this more now than I did before as it's a pretty good compromise since hunters have to put in so much work to secure a kill. Either that or cut the revive time window in half so it's easier to get the kill.

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These are great suggestions, hopefully Techland will take note and include them in the next patch:

 

...However I completely agree with power attacks and special attacks requiring stamina. They have very little risk as is and huge rewards (non-blockable, instant death, 2x power, etc).

 

Agree, power/ special attacks should cost stamina for the survivor. Make it so that they can't dodge if the stamina isn't full. This will cause them survivors to plan their attacks and not spam the dropkicks/ DFA. 

 

....Getting rid of revives sounds a little too harsh. The problem with them now is they last so damn long, 30 seconds I believe. A lot can happen within amount of time.

 

This can be solved by reducing the countdown/ timer to 20 secs or less. Or do something like what turtle rock studios do with evolve, human will automatically be killed if they are down more than twice (there are 2 bars at the end of the human's health as indicator i believe).

Edited by EnlightenMe

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30 seconds is a long time to keep a player busy so as to not revive a KO'ed survivor.  Never mind that 1v4 it's nearly impossible to defend a KO.  While getting rid of revive may sound harsh, remember it's not in a 1v1 match.  I think it's unfair to make a NH fight more players AND handicap him further with opponents being able to revive each other.

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