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Unblockable Gp With Spits And Teleporting/flying Bombers

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I regularly play be the zombie matches, i win most of the times although there are 2 things which get me killed:

 

 

1.- Ground pounds with spits.

 

2.- Bombers which have the tendency to fly or teleport even on safezones or on high buildings.

 

 

I had tried using shield just right before the hunter ground pounds with spits in front of me and my uv still gets disabled, i even did some tests with a friend who is hunter and i asked him to ground pound with UV spits while i used shield and its useless. Only use i found for the shield is to block single spits that are thrown nearby or get attached on me, but shield seems to be useless against ground pounds with spits.

 

 

The second thing about the bombers is hugely annoying, in older versions of dying light going to a high building or a safezone used to be helpful to run away from bombers, since version 1.6 bombers can now get spawned even on safezones or high buildings, i have even seen bombers flying rapidly from one building to another just to kill you.

 

Other times while your teammates are being chased by the horde and they are several meters away from you, 450 or 500 meter for example and your running up and its all clear, magically a bomber gets spawned/teleported on you and you are already dead, so damn annoying.

 

 

So i was wondering, is there a way to block the spits when the hunter ground pounds with them?

 

Any tips to avoid those teleporting/flying bombers?

 

Thanks in advance.

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For the amount spits needed to pull off that move I see no problem with it being unlockable. It has a fairly balanced risk/ratio and cannot be spammed like say the dropkick(which has no immediate drawbacks).

 

Also the shield glitch is not permanent. I wouldn't get used to relying on it as a last ditch effort to protect yourself from well timed/placed spits. And as far as I know the horde has always been glitchy. There was no patch that suddenly made them impossible to dodge. Plus if you're really having trouble getting to high ground just use camouflage or pop a cloak potion, they'll forget about you immediately.

Edited by jcks

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So i was wondering, is there a way to block the spits when the hunter ground pounds with them?

 

Any tips to avoid those teleporting/flying bombers?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

There is pretty broad consensus that Shield use against spits kills the purpose of the hunter's spit mechanic almost entirely and that this would get patched. It promotes pretty lame play, as Survivors already enjoy several proximity alerts (music, Crane mumbling "something's not right", squishy tendril noises, Orange glow, HUD) along with spit trajectory warning and all they have to do is raise the Shield for almost complete spit invincibility. That kind of play makes spits useless and good survivors will have a hunter for lunch every day without shield use. Like EXPcalibur sword: don't use this, don't be that type of player for whom winning is more important than playing. Same goes for swimming, disaster relief packages etc.

 

Spit smash is an attack of last resort and/or special occasion, due to its high cost. If, as you say, you/survivors win most of the time and resistance of Hunter to UV and close range attack is not buffed accordingly, as is the case today, then this type of high risk attack, that leaves the Hunter completely exposed, vulnerable (and usually dead if he misses by a meter or two) is the hunter's only credible threat. In 1v1 this means that hunting the hunter will expose the survivor more to this type of attack, as the survivor will try to get close and expose themselves more, so the chances that a spit smash connects rise accordingly. 

 

With more survivors, watching each others' backs at medium range distance while keeping focused on clean, patient removal of nests, instead of focusing on Hunter is more successful imho in countering spit smash than any tactical "move". With UV light and Hunter resistance being what they are, a Hunter may get in a UV smash, but with survivors around, they won't be able to use that for a pounce and survivors can cut spit smash danger at its roots, and not even let the situation arise.

 

With bombers, it's similar: survivors that care more about the local terrain, keeping each others' backs at medium range, that clean the nests thoroughly, instead of rushing or hunting the hunter... that's the kind of survivor that a hunter is ill-equipped and not strong enough to counter. A shame really, as this is where the game could get more interesting.

 

There are thousands of videos of "hunt the hunter" posted on youtube etc. and very few where we see a high level hunter holding their own against survivors that know what they're doing. Most videos from hunter pov just demonstrate how not to play as survivor. Camouflage or potion won't help much imho as it merely seems to remove the magnetism, not negating the possibility that you run into one around a corner or that one of them spawns next to you, as I believe contact still sets them off in this case. Depends on where/how the spit connects and how mature the exit routine of survivors is. But why worry, when survivors can get revived infinitely often? One survivor should be allowed one or two revives per match, based on their level, and not more. Infinite reviving is more magical than glitching bombers: it implies immortality. Why would a strong survivor need that?  :D

Edited by Chickeninja

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Camouflage or potion won't help much imho as it merely seems to remove the magnetism, not negating the possibility that you run into one around a corner or that one of them spawns next to you, as I believe contact still sets them off in this case.

It completely negates them.

 

[btZ] - Horde Evasion:

 

If a survivor runs into them then that's entirely their fault for not paying attention to the mini map.

Edited by jcks

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It completely negates them.

 

[btZ] - Horde Evasion:

 

If a survivor runs into them then that's entirely their fault for not paying attention to the mini map.

 

You clearly don't play much of the game, as outside of 1v1 in some artificial buddy setup, i.e. most normal situations, tagging one or two survivors results in such quick complications that it doesn't help much. And it shouldn't, as horde spit is essential and one of the main pillars of hunter play in an asymmetric game play situation.

 

More often than not, in most normal multiplayer situations, a survivor that has been tagged or who is close to another that has been tagged, is in danger of running into a freshly spawned bomber, regardless of HUD. OP is right: this happens, and the fault of the survivor is not forgetting to watch their HUD at this point, or forgetting to camouflage/swig a potion; the fault of the survivor is allowing the situation to progress to the point that they are exposed to the horde in vulnerable circumstance (no exit plan in game world), in the first place.

 

Survivor position is and should be compromised at this point.

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You clearly don't play much of the game, as outside of 1v1 in some artificial buddy setup, i.e. most normal situations, tagging one or two survivors results in such quick complications that it doesn't help much. And it shouldn't, as horde spit is essential and one of the main pillars of hunter play in an asymmetric game play situation.

 

More often than not, in most normal multiplayer situations, a survivor that has been tagged or who is close to another that has been tagged, is in danger of running into a freshly spawned bomber, regardless of HUD. OP is right: this happens, and the fault of the survivor is not forgetting to watch their HUD at this point, or forgetting to camouflage/swig a potion; the fault of the survivor is allowing the situation to progress to the point that they are exposed to the horde in vulnerable circumstance (no exit plan in game world), in the first place.

 

Survivor position is and should be compromised at this point.

 

Well that's an absurd accusation. You have no idea how long I've been playing or how many games I've played. I'll say this though, I've played enough to the point where I'm not just going to pull stuff out of my chupacabra

 

https://youtu.be/nj6iqA5b10s?t=2m23s

 

Here is a 1v2 match from a previous patch. You can see that I applied a horde spit to someone who was in the worst possible situation to get stuck by a horde (locked in a train car with not many tall structures around to escape). I monitor both him and his buddy closely, waiting for my chance to capitalize on the horde spit which is it's entire purporse. That chance never comes, know why? Because at 2:43 he pops a cloak potion and the horde stops moving IMMEDIATELY. They don't keep running or go "oh well let's look for his friend." They cease to function altogether and wait until the time expires before collectively exploding. They pose no threat to neither him nor his friend. The only instance where they continue to chase after him is when I keep pressure on his friend and not allow him to use a cloak potion. But in your words this is meaningless as the other survivors can stay completely safe (4:03 he was sitting in the train car the whole time spamming flares which under normal circumstances does not protect you from the horde) and then revive him afterwards. 

 

Also camo is only one way to take out the horde. You can still shoot them from far away and they'll explode with one shot anywhere. Add this to the fact that guns have no penalty in MP matches and you got yourself a pretty effect counter to the horde as well as a decent weapon against the night hunter should he try and confront you.

 

All that was coming from absolute terrible survivor players. But those same techniques employed by higher level players become game breaking mechanics. Just because a survivor isn't watching their HUD or paying attention to all their options doesn't mean that they aren't at fault. Clearly there is more you can do in that situation and if you aren't doing any of this then you aren't playing at maximum efficiency.

 

And you're right I don't play this game much anymore. Mainly because I'm tired of dealing with chupacabra like this. I'm still interested in seeing how it gets balanced but as of right now I don't feel like wasting my time getting to mutation level 3 considering all the time I've poured into the game from the start. It's just an insult to long time players with very little incentive to keep playing the game in such an unbalanced state.

Edited by jcks

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@Jcks: You flatter yourself perhaps if you think I'm trying to accuse you or to drag this onto some personal level and tend to have this habit with posts of mine in general: second time this happens in a couple of weeks btw.

 

It's much simpler: you make a statement concerning how camouflage/potion is a sound tactical option for game play. I disagree for above reasons and think camouflage and potions only work, in the sense you describe, in exceptional cases and circumstances, which your post/example underlines. Not so in normal game play where as survivor, one often lacks the time for long make-up sessions :lol:. You are technically correct but the point is not really relevant with respect to most practical game play situations I have encountered. But maybe it's different on PC and I might have come across a bit sharp; apologies if that was the case.

 

I share with you definitely the desire for more balanced game play and options in the future. If you could tone down the personal stuff and hair splitting with me, it would be easier to follow your arguments (which are often insightful) and the community could make its position on various matters clearer. Not that this really matters or that anybody reads, but I do appreciate your posts when they don't try to establish some artificial sense of authority or hostility that just isn't there.

 

It does put a smirk on my face to see people getting on their soap boxes dispensing Internet justice concerning their gigantic expertise/experience of a game that isn't even a year old.  :D Hell, I laugh at myself for doing the same. Take it easy and have fun out there people!

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Camouflage completely makes the bombers stop chasing you. Bombers will explode if they get near one of the tagged guy's buddies. Simple as that. They don't chase the extra players who aren't tagged and will stop chasing players who have camouflage on.

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Camouflage completely makes the bombers stop chasing you. Bombers will explode if they get near one of the tagged guy's buddies. Simple as that. They don't chase the extra players who aren't tagged and will stop chasing players who have camouflage on.

 

In most cases their proximity to a buddy gets the job done, but so what? Can one rely on camouflage as a main tactic to "completely negate" horde spit in any match, in all situations?

 

Again, while this is technically correct, I don't think I'd go that far, as every placement of a spit that connects or gets stuck is different concerning amounts of survivors, local geography, situation/score in a specific game etc. I think it's more complex than "complete negation" of Horde Spit, as one of the central tactical approaches to solving Night Hunter's strategic goals of a match.

 

Not viable as a main tactic imho on survivor side and makeup/potions shouldn't be: If this were exploited to the point that Horde Spit makes even less sense than it does now, which is where this reasoning leads, say the way the Shield glitch works, then it would damage and bring more imbalance to a game mode that is already plagued by quite a few issues that people bring up on these pages. I don't see anybody but grumpy survivors wanting that.

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Chicken, I think you're forgetting about cloak potions. Potions are portable solutions that can be used instantly and many people have them duped to infinity. This is why it's easy to bypass a horde. You just pop one cloak potion and you're off the radar and free to do whatever you want.

 

The trade-off is they don't last very long but if you have infinite potions it doesn't really matter.

Edited by jcks

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I'll agree to disagree on this.

 

It isn't a significant tactical advantage that tips the game in survivors' favor from here; and it won't and shouldn't negate horde spit as the main tool of hunters' tactical repertoire, which is why camouflage is a running joke among hunters, even in this forum if I remember correctly: yes, it has its use in BtZ, but buff it excessively and you end up mucking with the main tool any hunter has, the first basic skill on a Hunter's skill tree: Horde Spit, which is as key to the game mode as UV mechanic imho.

 

And if you guys prefer to win your survivor matches mainly through use of potions and make-up, worry not: nobody is going to take that away from you. With patches such a distant prospect it isn't even in the realm of the possible anytime soon. I'd attach much higher priority to removing Shield exploit and strengthening Hunter in terms of resistance and inventory, than winning some boring camouflage argument. :rolleyes:

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Spit smash is an attack of last resort and/or special occasion, due to its high cost. If, as you say, you/survivors win most of the time and resistance of Hunter to UV and close range attack is not buffed accordingly, as is the case today, then this type of high risk attack, that leaves the Hunter completely exposed, vulnerable (and usually dead if he misses by a meter or two) is the hunter's only credible threat. In 1v1 this means that hunting the hunter will expose the survivor more to this type of attack, as the survivor will try to get close and expose themselves more, so the chances that a spit smash connects rise accordingly. 

 

With more survivors, watching each others' backs at medium range distance while keeping focused on clean, patient removal of nests, instead of focusing on Hunter is more successful imho in countering spit smash than any tactical "move". With UV light and Hunter resistance being what they are, a Hunter may get in a UV smash, but with survivors around, they won't be able to use that for a pounce and survivors can cut spit smash danger at its roots, and not even let the situation arise.

 

With bombers, it's similar: survivors that care more about the local terrain, keeping each others' backs at medium range, that clean the nests thoroughly, instead of rushing or hunting the hunter... that's the kind of survivor that a hunter is ill-equipped and not strong enough to counter. A shame really, as this is where the game could get more interesting.

 

Thank you for replying, now quoting specially the part where you say the "Spit Smash" or Ground Pound with spits are a special occasion attack i will have to agree to disagree, many hunters i have fought with have the tendency to wait 1 or 2 minutes until they have 2 spits ready to do the "Spit Smash" and then they approach to use it and many hunters have a lot of practice with it and its kind of tricky to avoid it, and as they combine the "UV Shield" ability with it there is not even 1 second to pull a flare because i have been already pounced.

 

I usually play 1vs1 because most humans don't know how to play and they split up and rush to destroy the nests like lone-wolves and don't even help each other, they get pounced constantly resulting into an immediate defeat.

 

So i usually win 1vs1 matches, but once im already playing with really experienced hunters, usually Apex Predators, i can come really close to get defeated or i absolutely get defeated, specially that "Spit Smash" comes really handy to them, using it every 2 minutes more-less.

 

Now this sort of things give me the bad feeling that playing 1vs1 with real Pro Hunters is not a good idea, that its far better to have a team of good human players covering each other.

 

 

Other thing i have found pretty annoying as well, are this hunters cheating using infinite spits and they can go using the "Spit Smash" every time they want, they can do one "Spit Smash" after another until they win, not even a chance to destroy 1 nest.

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Thank you for replying, now quoting specially the part where you say the "Spit Smash" or Ground Pound with spits are a special occasion attack i will have to agree to disagree, many hunters i have fought with have the tendency to wait 1 or 2 minutes until they have 2 spits ready to do the "Spit Smash" and then they approach to use it and many hunters have a lot of practice with it and its kind of tricky to avoid it, and as they combine the "UV Shield" ability with it there is not even 1 second to pull a flare because i have been already pounced.

 

 

You're right, I only speak from limited personal experience and other hunters abusing spit smash must suck from survivor pov. But it also sucks for the hunter in this case because of how dull and unimaginative the game play becomes. People confuse "winning" with fun quite a bit, which obscures asking the right kinds of questions to balance the mode. 

 

 

I usually play 1vs1 because most humans don't know how to play and they split up and rush to destroy the nests like lone-wolves and don't even help each other, they get pounced constantly resulting into an immediate defeat.

 

So i usually win 1vs1 matches, but once im already playing with really experienced hunters, usually Apex Predators, i can come really close to get defeated or i absolutely get defeated, specially that "Spit Smash" comes really handy to them, using it every 2 minutes more-less.

 

Now this sort of things give me the bad feeling that playing 1vs1 with real Pro Hunters is not a good idea, that its far better to have a team of good human players covering each other.

 

1v1 against a "pro survivor" is a bad idea as well.  :) 

 

Imho the game is a bit rigged against high level hunters, with survivors having so many weapons, tools, AND each other at their disposal. But I won't defend the kind of joy killing play that reduces everything to "winning". Not on survivor and not on hunter side, which may be people taking themselves and the game a bit seriously. And that's part of the fun and why I am less certain than many concerning balance. 

 

Thanks for the warning of the boring hunters. I'll have to adapt my survivor play when I encounter that type. :ph34r: The smash has the limited ground pound range, so I'll keep a close eye on them on my HUD, model where they'd want to smash, then get out of range and try and hunt me some boring hunter without hunting them by applying some baiting tactic. I'd just try and get good at that, if I were in your shoes, assuming you still want to play. The latter not being a given with the little info, patches, and attention BtZ gets for whatever reason these days.

 

 

Chicken  you do know you can also out run the horde. You know they aren't like super fast even with the hunter behind your back you can throw flares behind you.

 

As a survivor on PC, I am Horde extraction specialist, because I'm too dumb and lazy to avoid the spits and think the shield is even dumber and lazier than me. So yes, I can get away but I'd say I have slightly less than 50% chance of surviving a stuck horde spit in some random spot. If you're an excellent survivor you can probably do much better. But this, and the fact that survivors can revive infinitely skews the balance towards survivor dominance a bit. The other day I lost to some amazing Kyle surgeons, that were able to revive more than 10 times and stayed tight so I couldn't swipe without getting killed. That's not really believable: healing a person more than 10 times, but what can I say as just your regular lazy tendrilling zombie without a patch?  :D 

 

Peace guys and have yourselves a nice weekend. May both survivor and zombie gods grant you kills and grace. ;)

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I hate to say it but its your fault for being in some random spot. I don't want to compare games but this fits the nitch. Evolve is all about positioning as a hunter. If you can't position then your screwed and you screwed your entire team up. In terms of Dying Light you have to position your self and know the map. Where are the good spots to fight the hunter and where are the bad spots to fight the hunter? That is the question you ask your self.

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I'll agree to disagree on this.

 

It isn't a significant tactical advantage that tips the game in survivors' favor from here; and it won't and shouldn't negate horde spit as the main tool of hunters' tactical repertoire, which is why camouflage is a running joke among hunters, even in this forum if I remember correctly: yes, it has its use in BtZ, but buff it excessively and you end up mucking with the main tool any hunter has, the first basic skill on a Hunter's skill tree: Horde Spit, which is as key to the game mode as UV mechanic imho.

 

And if you guys prefer to win your survivor matches mainly through use of potions and make-up, worry not: nobody is going to take that away from you. With patches such a distant prospect it isn't even in the realm of the possible anytime soon. I'd attach much higher priority to removing Shield exploit and strengthening Hunter in terms of resistance and inventory, than winning some boring camouflage argument. :rolleyes:

You are relying on horde like a crutch. And if you really want to put it that way id rather rely on "make up" than AI any day. Only noobs constantly die to horde spit, it takes like 2 seconds to get off the ground, throw down a flare so you dont get screwed by a pounce even if you interupt, and avoiding ground pound. And agreeing to disagree about facts is never a good route to take, camo negates horde spit plain and simple, I could upload a video camod while chasing a bomber to prove it if you like, or you can merely outrun them as stated above.

Edited by Chaos_Deception
Removed Double Quote [Chickeninja]

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Repeatedly people confuse camouflage-negating Horde Spit from pov of one survivor with camouflage not being the only strategic route to take in this game mode. That's not just confusion of levels but also confusion about the strength of a statement. From my first post in this thread up to this point, I meant the latter while people want to frame that as "duh-dunno what camouflage means in this game". Sorry people, I've often had survivors beat me easily without using camouflage. It's therefore not that central in my game play experience. Yes, I agree that position is of more central importance @Kingsmall, for example.

 

Agreeing to disagree is what community in a democracy is about, be that on forums or other means of exchange. And while everybody is free to nitpick, too much of that does promote an image of BtZ community as fussy squabblers over and above all the interesting, creative, and well-meaning contributions people make. This unfortunately lowers the standard and makes everybody's claims less credible. But if that's the road people want to increasingly take here, who am I to argue with that?

 

In that spirit: have yourselves a fine weekend, whatever you agree or disagree with. :) 

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Here's the Issue I have with Camouflage.  I don't think it was Intended to be able to Nullify the Effect of the Bomber Horde's Ability to Track the Player.

 

Much like Kyle's Ability to Nullify stuck Spits with the Shield. It was not Intended by Design.

 

So if this was also not Intended by Design. Then You can be sure that I will Fully Advocate Techland  Fixing this.  

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That's what I meant. It may work from 1p pov of survivor as the video demonstrates but it seems senseless when considering the big picture. If survivors can pull significant advantage from this, failed Horde tracking needs to be addressed. If they can't, then hopefully the advantage stays negligible. As of now, I have yet to experience a group of survivors win due to this state-of-affairs, unlike the game-breaking cheats such as that police rifle that allows one-shotting of nests.

 

Survivor shield problem seems more relevant. I remember earlier this year when most agreed that expcalibur sword was OP. People denounced its use and it became rare to meet somebody who'd use it. Perhaps a topic could be pinned addressing this, so that when a hunter meets shield exploiting survivors online, he can refer them to these discussions and consensus.    

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Here's the Issue I have with Camouflage.  I don't think it was Intended to be able to Nullify the Effect of the Bomber Horde's Ability to Track the Player.

 

Much like Kyle's Ability to Nullify stuck Spits with the Shield. It was not Intended by Design.

 

So if this was also not Intended by Design. Then You can be sure that I will Fully Advocate Techland  Fixing this.  

 

I view it as an unfortunate side effect, just like the lack of damage scaling in the vanilla version. Story mode mechanics that don't translate well in a multiplayer setting and were overlooked because of what I can only assume to be improper or rushed testing.

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