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DoctorPurrington

[Suggestion] If Only For A Trial Period, Can The Skill / Elo Matchmaking Be Toned Down Or Removed?

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Hey guys (and Devs), I thought I would bring up an issue that, while mentioned previously, hasn't really had too much focused attention. That issue is the Night Hunter's inability to find matches at higher levels.

 

From prior Dev-posts, we've gleaned that Matchmaking is based on an ELO/Skill-type system that is generated based on your current status in the game, subsequently matching you up with Human Survivor players of a somewhat similar level. What that status is (Level, Rank, hidden stat-based values) is currently unknown, but a safe assumption is that your level is a strong factor in determining what "level" of Survivor you fight against.

 

I make this assumption because, as I'm sure we've all noticed, matches are near-inifinite at lower levels and very quickly devolve into patches of 3-4 around level 14-15.

 

I'd like to propose a trial period where this system is either removed, toned down, or altered to allow a greater number of matches to be available to the Hunter.

 

Like all PVP environments, this game has its flaws, but I still enjoy it immensely. The only problem is that I only enjoy it when I'm playing it, which seems few and far between as my Night Hunter continues to level (and re-level). And, honestly, removing a Night Hunter's abilities when they've already reached Apex Predator doesn't suddenly remove their skills. It's not all that fun, or difficult, killing guys who don't know what the UV Light is yet.

 

Truthfully, it seems odd to me that I'm allowed to masquerade as a "noob" upon reset and proceed to farm younglings for kills.

 

I'd like to propose a more flexible method for finding matches for the Night Hunter. When Hunters get into their 30s, 40s, and 50s, ELO simply does not work correctly. It's not doing its job, which is to find us matches. We'll often find ourselves refreshing for 10 to 20 minutes at a time before a match shows up, and that match may not connect if another Night Hunter beats us to the punch.

 

Instead, why not have that ELO radar degrade as the game attempts to find you a match? As in, if the Matchmaking does not find a suitable match, rather than simply "giving up" and showing no matches, it would slowly go down the ELO list until the next-most suitable matches are found? I say "matches" specifically, because if only 1-2 pop up, we're in the same boat as before - Night Hunters fighting each other to get into matches.

 

This way, Night Hunters would always have matches to jump into, regardless of their "Rank." Our matches would still be a top-down filter, so we wouldn't be resorting to Pub-Stomping just to play a match, but we also wouldn't be falling asleep with DS4 indents on our cheeks because we've been wating for a match for an hour.

 

Simply put, the current ELO method isn't working. I, and many other Night Hunters, feel frustrated when we cannot play the game. There are other issues within the mode, yes, but to even experience those, we need to be able to play it. I believe this system would benefit the community in a number of ways.

 

So many, in fact, that I'm including this fancy bulleted list!
 

  • More matches = happier players. No one likes losing, but people hate losing and having to stew over that loss in the "Waiting for Players" menu for 20 minutes.
  • Many Night Hunter express concerns over the strength of Human players. While many of these complaints are completely founded, others may simply be a skill gap. This exposes more Night Hunters to a greater skill-variation of Human players, possibly encouraging more even matches for players who don't have lightning bolts for fingers.
  • More matches for Night Hunters = Quicker leveling, which = Less frustration over the new "Reset" system.
  • This system would prevent higher-level Night Hunters such as myself from fighting the same players day-in and day-out. I love you guys, but I just don't want to fight you 5 times in a row. I feel like a jerk invading 2-3 times in succession, simply because there's no one else to play.
  • Not forcing mid-level Night Hunters to face only the highest-level Survivors over and over decreases the chance of encountering those who glitch, dupe, or expolit their way to to the top of the food chain. No one respects these players, and frankly, if they aren't going to be banned, no one wants to waste time playing them. This new system would result in more middle players facing more middle players, rather than locking mid-level Hunters out of hundreds of potential fights.
  • More fights = more choice. When's the last time you guys played in Old Town twice in a row? I don't think it's happened to me in months. We like Old Town, devs. We'd like to be able to choose to play where we want to play, not blindly click whichever match pops up first!
  • More fights = less grudges/better experiences. I have a Blacklist, guys. Who else has a blacklist? I bet it's a good number. I know the names of 20+ players who are either blatant dupers, map exploiters, or AFK'ers that I simply don't want to play against, knowing full well I'll spend 30 minutes pretending to be AFK until they come wriggling out of a one-way wall/floor to cap a Nest. I'm sure we can all relate to the frustration of seeing those people's names pop up for hours while we're trying to find normal matches. It would be easier to avoid problem players if we didn't have only a single person appearing on the list over and over.

 

The gist? The current Matchmaking system needs to go, or at least be overhauled. I'm proposing a trial period, if nothing else, where the matchmaking system is either altered or removed entirely. Human players are free to turn on/off their Night Hunter mode as they please. It's time we Night Hunters were given the same freedoms in choosing who we fight and where, and not be locked into empty player lists for exorbitant amounts of time.

 

Thoughts? Suggestions? Money? Preferably that last one.

 

Sincerely,

 

DoctorPurrington

Edited by DoctorPurrington

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Good post! I agree wholeheartedly!

 

Also, why is it that we can't play cross platform? That would certainly open more variety.

I think that's only possible with pc. There's no way to do that with consoles or pc to console with current technology.

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Thanks, SomeOldDude. I know how a lot of Night Hunters feel about the matchmaking, and I figured the only way we'll get changes made is if we actively (and professionally) express our concerns.

 

I think that's only possible with pc. There's no way to do that with consoles or pc to console with current technology.

Yep, plus we really wouldn't want to deal with PC players, as not only is there a lot more actual "hacking," but PC offers much higher sensitivity settings than console does, so PC players would have a considerably faster turning speed.

 

Also, thank you to whomever pinned the post!

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I'd like to see a personal ban list.  Any game that opens up and it has any player on your ban list then it doesn't show on your list of games to invade.

 

An expanded list of available games will sure to get folks you simply don't want to play.  It would also make the Quick Join option more useful as you won't have to be quitting games you quick joined only to find it's a cheater you've been matched with.

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It would also make the Quick Join option more useful as you won't have to be quitting games you quick joined only to find it's a cheater you've been matched with.

 

This is a great point - one I wish I had mentioned in the OP!

 

Right now, Quick Join is a liability, not a timesaver. It's a risk, possibly pitting you against the camper who has been AFK in his game and appearing on your server dropdown for the last hour.

 

Above all, the fact that Quick Join doesn't just automatically find you a match is kind of silly. If there are no people for me to "choose," if nothing else, Quick Join should just find me a random match. But when there are no people showing up on the server dropdown, Quick Join also does not work and finds "no matches." All in all, there's little-to-no reason to use it at the moment.

Edited by DoctorPurrington

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It would be neat if you could block players you would want to join. If there connected to somebody else this still counts.

However I don't know if they join mid-match, which I think they should take off.

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This is a great point - one I wish I had mentioned in the OP!

 

Right now, Quick Join is a liability, not a timesaver. It's a risk, possibly pitting you against the camper who has been AFK in his game and appearing on your server dropdown for the last hour.

 

Above all, the fact that Quick Join doesn't just automatically find you a match is kind of silly. If there are no people for me to "choose," if nothing else, Quick Join should just find me a random match. But when there are no people showing up on the server dropdown, Quick Join also does not work and finds "no matches." All in all, there's little-to-no reason to use it at the moment.

Quick is better imo. Instead of going through 3 step process with the match finder I can just go through one step and have the game search for me. I don't have to be as involved as I do with find a match which is good since 9 times out of 10 my carefully selected matches end up being aborted, already invaded or can't connect. The only down side is you don't control who you get matched with but it's better than wasting my time browsing for a match only to get rejected time and time again.

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I disagree that quick search is the better search option because of the fact that you no idea if the game your joining isn't the same one that just rejected you so you could potentially be going in a continuous loop until it finds a new game. With the extended search I can see how many players there are you can check the players server host name so you for sure know you won't get rejected over and over if you try and go in. To me there's a lot more benefits from using extended search than the quick search.

Edited by kingsmall101

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I disagree that quick search is the better search option because of the fact that you no idea if the game your joining isn't the same one that just rejected you so you could potentially be going in a continuous loop until it finds a new game. With the extended search I can see how many players there are you can check the players server host name so you for sure know you won't get rejected over and over if you try and go in. To me there's a lot more benefits from using extended search than the quick search.

 

Most of those matches aren't real though. There's still an issue where the game is filling the list with pseudo matches that you can never connect to because the players were never in BtZ mode to begin with. That's usually the first 10 or so matches for me in the list so I have to scroll down a bit in addition to waiting for the list to load. By the time I look down there and carefully select who I want to play against (hoping it isn't still one of those fake matches) hunters have already invaded half the games down there, and there's no way for me to know which match I can actually join (and if there was I can't predict the people who will abort during the beginning for whatever reason). Keep in mind the time between all these steps - waiting for the list to load, scrolling past the pseudo matches, picking one of the bottom ones at random praying that it isn't already taken and if it is waiting for multiplayer to load back up so you can start the process all over again - it's just too much. I'd rather take the chance of getting matched with the same player(s) than go through that process at least 10 times before I find a match. I could do so much with the time I saved letting the game find my match like consider why I'm even waiting this long in the first place and go play something else (I've done this plenty of times lol).

Edited by jcks

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I agree with King. If I wanna do a 4v1 then I just search for one. And so what the matchmaking for that is too long I thought all of us Night Hunters were taught patience when we met are first camper.

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Quick is better imo. Instead of going through 3 step process with the match finder I can just go through one step and have the game search for me. I don't have to be as involved as I do with find a match which is good since 9 times out of 10 my carefully selected matches end up being aborted, already invaded or can't connect. The only down side is you don't control who you get matched with but it's better than wasting my time browsing for a match only to get rejected time and time again.

 

I need matches to browse before I can waste my time browsing for matches! <_<

 

Past level 20-ish, all I get is single peeps on my list, if not zero people for 10-20 minutes at a time.

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I play on console and while I believe this is a great idea, I seriously doubt it can be implemented on console. Kinda sucks because this is an amazing idea which can really increase the amount of people willing to play BTZ mode. Anyway on console there is no shortage of matches to join no matter your level or rank, however 90% of the time you try to invade a match it will come up with an error message. Again this is a great idea and I would still be happy to know the devs are at least willing to listen if they do this on pc.

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I Pinned this Post as it is Insightful and Intelligent.

 

And I'm sure it will be Noticed by the Dev Team.

Much appreciated, Chaos.

 

I play on console and while I believe this is a great idea, I seriously doubt it can be implemented on console. Kinda sucks because this is an amazing idea which can really increase the amount of people willing to play BTZ mode. Anyway on console there is no shortage of matches to join no matter your level or rank, however 90% of the time you try to invade a match it will come up with an error message. Again this is a great idea and I would still be happy to know the devs are at least willing to listen if they do this on pc.

I'm on PS4, and I've regularly had issues finding anyone to fight past level 30. Level 50+, before the resets, was murder trying to find anyone to play. I'm sure fellow PS4 players can agree that, past a certain level, the server dropdown either shows 0 players or 1. It doesn't make for very diverse matches.

 

I'm not sure how deep the ELO system goes, but I'm hoping it's something that can simply be "disabled," or at least have its perameters extended.

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The main issue is that there are more 'high level' Hunter players playing BTZ than there are Survivor players.  There are 2 pools that players are broken up into.  They essentially work out like this:

 

1.BEGINNER POOL- These are people just learning to play BTZ for the first time.  These are survivors that don't know how to use their UV light, Hunters that have no skills etc.  They are trying to understand how to play BTZ.

2.EVERYBODY ELSE POOL- This pool is made up of everyone else: from people that have played, and won, at least a couple of games to Apex Predators and Ultimate Survivors.

 

Within these pools ELO will also try to match you to the closest players to your skill level.  Like any PVP game, BTZ works best, and is the most fun, if you are playing against someone close to your skill level.  You can do a custom search and look for full green bars in the 'matching' category to find these games.  If you do a quickjoin it will look for these matches first and then expand gradually to everyone in the pool.  The lower this 'matching' bar is the further apart your ELO scores are.  A low matching bar could be either someone with a much higher ELO or a much lower ELO.  

 

A couple of other things to note:

When a Hunter Mutates they are put back into the beginner pool.  However, they will most likely not stay there very long... if you were to win your first 3 matches you would most likely be bumped to the higher pool.

When a Survivor changes their invasion setting to 'ANY TIME' they will also be bumped up into the higher pool.

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Pete, thank you so much for responding! I don't want to speak for everyone, but I'll respond to what I feel represents common concerns.

 

The main issue is that there are more 'high level' Hunter players playing BTZ than there are Survivor players.  There are 2 pools that players are broken up into.  They essentially work out like this:

 

1.BEGINNER POOL- These are people just learning to play BTZ for the first time.  These are survivors that don't know how to use their UV light, Hunters that have no skills etc.  They are trying to understand how to play BTZ.

2.EVERYBODY ELSE POOL- This pool is made up of everyone else: from people that have played, and won, at least a couple of games to Apex Predators and Ultimate Survivors.

 

Within these pools ELO will also try to match you to the closest players to your skill level.  Like any PVP game, BTZ works best, and is the most fun, if you are playing against someone close to your skill level.

 

I whole-heartedly agree, and the last thing I want my post to convey is, "Let us Night Hunters fight against new players for easy wins!" If there's any middle-ground, that's what I'm aiming for.

 

You can do a custom search and look for full green bars in the 'matching' category to find these games.  If you do a quickjoin it will look for these matches first and then expand gradually to everyone in the pool.  The lower this 'matching' bar is the further apart your ELO scores are.  A low matching bar could be either someone with a much higher ELO or a much lower ELO.  

 

I can't speak for PC, but I know that, on consoles, finding matches as a higher-level Night Hunter was becoming an increasingly difficult task. I'm currently in the middle of leveling mutations, but at level 40-50+, neither Custom Search would pull up any Survivors to face for quite a long time - sometimes upwards of 10-20 minutes of refreshing. Even now, in the 20's, I've had a small number of instances of needing to refresh multiple times before a single match appears.

 

I can safely say that what the community is hoping for is a greater pool-size of players to fight against. I don't disagree with the ELO system - matches are always better when they're a challenge. But if there is any way to extend the range of the ELO system, I sincerely believe it would make for a much better experience.

 

It's understandable that, at level 40-50+, a Night Hunter would have a high level of skill and be able to (and want to) take on tougher opponents. However, that same ELO system often produces "0" results for long periods of time. This is undoubtedly our main Matchmaking-related concern.

 

In the same vein, I speak from personal experience when I say that there are some players Night Hunters would simply rather avoid. One night in particular consisted of having only a single person present on the Server Dropdown (which, in turn, would have been the only person Quick Join would have registered) for nearly an hour. That player was glitched into an inaccessible area of the map and remained AFK, farming "Wins." This prompted me to leave the match, but no matter how long the Server Dropdown was left to refresh for subsequent Matchmaking, that player was the only available candidate.

 

This is an example of the kind of situation we wish to avoid by extending the pool of available players.

 

In addition, though less malicious of an example, the same active player can show up multiple times in a row as the only choice. It seems mildly unsportsmanlike to invade the same player over and over, especially if that player was not on the same skill level as the invading Hunter. I've encountered players who continuously Abort prior to a matchmade match, claiming that they don't want to fight Night Hunters above a certain level. Regardless of whether or not I agree with their mentality, I'm not going to forcefully invade a person over and over after winning a match; however, the only other option is not playing, as no more than 1 player appears quite often.

 

A couple of other things to note:

When a Hunter Mutates they are put back into the beginner pool.  However, they will most likely not stay there very long... if you were to win your first 3 matches you would most likely be bumped to the higher pool.

When a Survivor changes their invasion setting to 'ANY TIME' they will also be bumped up into the higher pool.

 

These are both good things to note. I definitely notice that fights against players who simply "don't know how the UV Light works" is relatively short, which is exactly how it should be. Tackling new players for points isn't quite our idea of a good time.

 

As Night Hunters, we need our full arsenal to face off against experienced players. I can safely say that, while we all desire more matches, resetting ourselves to enter a wider player-pool isn't a viable answer. As you mentioned, there are many Night Hunters that can be considered "High Level." To finally see a single match on the Server Dropdown, only to be met with a message stating that another Night Hunter beat you to the punch, can be frustrating.

 

At a certain point, many Night Hunters are in the same boat, stalking the Server and quickly scavenging any matches that appear. While the metaphor is kind of appropriate, considering we're crazed, Human-hungry zombies, it's not quite as fun when that's going on outside the match, rather than in it. It becomes less a matter of choice or preference and more a matter of limitation and necessity.

 

All included points are why I sincerely believe that extending this pool - if only for a trial period - would be very beneficial to the Night Hunter community.

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I will Chime in and add My Piece. 

 

Progression for the Night Hunter is often a daunting Task.  As in most cases a Level 1 Night Hunter or a Prestieged Night Hunter

 

will often be Matched against Experienced Humans. This presents a Problem as the Night Hunter has no Usable Skills

 

where as the Humans have Access to their Full Skill and Abilities that are Earned though Single Player.

 

 

My Suggestion would be to Allow Ability Points to be Earned for the Night Hunter, When being Invaded.

 

This would make Be The Zombie more Accessible for all.

Edited by Chaos_Deception

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I would like NPC XP, but you'd have to turn up the NPC AI a lot.  I used to use the lobby to hone my skills.  However, the NPCs are trivial to kill.  They need to have an AI at least as good as Rais' thugs: the ability to be aggressive with the NH, use the UV, dodge, etc.  Ramp up the aggressiveness on par with the NH rank.  Heck, I would like this even with little to no XP.

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