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Is "be The Zombie" Being Balanced?

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The title pretty much explains itself, just asking the devs, or someone who can remotely know if this is being worked on or not. Already asked on some other topics but since i dont get my questions quite answered i though that i would just create a topic myself.


Now, while i only want to know if it is or it isnt being worked on as an answer, i will state here some of the many reasons of why i think this gamemode is unbalanced.


1: Survivors decide location of invasion and can decide too the nest route. This is easily done by just staying in one concrete spot as the game will set a route according to where you are at the moment of the invasion. So, as it is right now, you will see 80% of the games, if not more, on slums as they have a HUGE advantage there because of less cover for the hunter, more opened spaces which are bad for the hunter, and also cannisters near most nests that make killing the nest a childs play.


So yeah, from the very beggining they have that pretty huge advantage, not speaking about coop games, that is just hillarous.


2: if a survivor dies once, he has 9 lives remaining. If a hunter dies, he loses a whole nest, meanin its equal to 2 survivor lives. It would be better if nests just had 1 egg on them but we instead had 10 nests very separated from each other, otherwise its kinda pointless to have more, if you ask me.


3: Survivors have pretty much unlimited resources, being those: flares, weapons, even envoirment advantages as cannisters, etc.


    Let me quickly list what the zombies have:


           Horde spit: Spit that, if you are good enough to get it to hit a player, will RANDOMLY spawn explosive zombies from fixed spawn points. What this means is that, after a hard work to land the spit, it can be either too useless as spawn points are so far away that survivors dont even get to see the zombies, or too overpowered that they spawn literally underneath them.


           Therefore, that spit is limited to some locations otherwise its just useless, not speaking that it can be countered by just getting on a bus.


           UV Spit: This spit, if landed properly, becomes useless as good survivors instantly spam flares all arround the map making the game flareland which just leaves you unable to take advantage of that situation.


           SS Spit: This one i didnt try that much but im aware of its possibilities, it has great potential specially for how long it lasts, still having to get the skill tree 3 times, each time taking a longer time, just to get all 3 new skills is a silly way to force people to play a game that until now was kinda dead. This spit as i said, is useful but, like all, a good player doesnt really need SS that much anyways, and he will, then again, just spam flares wherever he goes to prevent a surprise attack.


You know, survivor skillful tactics, just, put a flare on it and you are ok.



        Toxic Spit: This one is useful in some diverse situations, like defending nests, fallen survivors, or just dealing damage to camping people. But an easy counter is.. just... healing. You heal in normal from 100 to 200 in 2 secs, and on nests its not even that useful as survivors will just shot the fu** out of the nest with rais gun or just throw a cannister at it, easy peasy. (i mean, skillful, yeah)


        UV Block: Useful, great for sneaky pounces and to reach the survivors without losing energy. But what is the reality? Once you use it, survivors will just dodge their way out of you with no repercussions at all, they will just step down over and over again until it runs out and you are forced either to leave or die by his mighty UV light.


        UV Regen: Not that useful in normal as they can heal even quicker than you, making the "surprise them by gettinh into combat faster!" just kinda meaningless, hell, they might even get to you quicker while you heal and surprise you instead.


        Tackle: Most good survivors know how to dodge this, jsut spam jump or dodge (like they always do, nothing new if you ask me), they even jump tackles that i land from behind them, so really no point in even trying to unless you really want to die.


       Ground Pound: Useful and much needed, as is one of the only things that allow hunters to actually have a chance against good players. You will often see this stupid tactic in which the hunter keeps ground pounding the hell out of the survivor until he dies, if he doesnt dodge one of the many needed in order to kill him. This is the way hunters are forced to play, as otherwise they will get away in 1 sec and heal all the damage you have dealt to them. So again, hunters need to be an insta-kill machine no matter how, but you just cant let the survivor get away or you would have wasted many resources for nothing.


       Ground Pound with spit: Only really worth it in coop games, and even then its so hard to actually land that you will probably end up dead anyway. And if you actually land it, if its horde, they will jsut go to a rooftop, if its UVblock just all spam flares, toxic here is pointless, and SS spit would make no sense as they are 4 pair of eyes searching for you.


       Pounce: Insta-kill, if you actually get to land even one in a good player, as they have teeth that glow UV ligh, they even have UV-Ray vision so you cant get even close to them without turning into a defenseless turtle.



What all this means is, that, against a good player, the hunter is forced most of the times to use multiple skills to land a single kill, because the terrain, as always, chosed by the survivor, goes agaisnt them (open terrains, meaning uv light will get you) so even if you DO get the kill, you are left mostly defenseless against his next spawn, in which he probably will kill you and kill a whole nest, taking the advantage as a nest equals 2 of his lives.


These are the, i think, basic problems of the hunter, its resource limitations.


If you dont want to nerf the survivors maybe you could just buff the hunters giving them more spits so atleast we have more flexible attacks, and not be like "if i dont land this one spit that i have im DEAD", unlike the survivors who can spam practically everything that they have.


Because as i said, spits are our only way of winning, as in slums its mostly no cover for the hunter, meaning thay you are so exposed most of the times and a melee fight in open space is just kamikaze.


And no, dont tell me "Just fight them in close quarters then like a good predator" because then again, as everything in this gamemode, is chosed by the survivor. THEY chose where to fight, if they dont want to fight you somewhere, they can just (and i have seen this) take the looooong path that is open terrain just to not go into your domain, as he only needs to kill the nests. So yeah, from the very beggining, it looks more like it should be called "Be the hunted" gamemode. You just pop into a game to be onslaughted in the way the survivor sees fit.


    So yeah, even, in the best of assumptions, you get him to fight in close quarters, land spit on him and even are able to melee him, there can be 2 situations:


         you kill him, hooray, only 9 lives left. OR he kills you, with elbow +2 melee hit or bow to the face, both combos that are so op comapred to hunters melee that we should have dog paws instead of claws, that way it would look more realistic.


Meanwhile, as a survivor player that i am myself (not as much as hunter, but i did get to play agaisnt appex predators on hard) The playstyle its like:


    Just run for the nest, use hook to get there faster, wait for the voice confirmation of the zombie being near, switch to uv light, light his face like its a party, stay away and spam flares so he has no chances of even thinking on getting close.


   Get to the nest, the hunter is still alive. No problem, just pick up a can and drop it to the nest, even while the hunter is alive. Kill the nest like its your spare time hobby, do the same with the other egg and proceed for the next nest.


 If the hunter gets tired of losing and actually tries something, just dodge like you are michael jackson, until he fails a ground smash and then kill him, get to the next nest and repeat.


  If the hunter actually lands a spit on you:


   Horde: Most of the times i dont even get to see the horde, if you literally rush to the next nest you wont even see them, if you are already in the nest, just jump into a roof. You might die by this distraction, but then aagain, first you have to get spitted and then, have the hunter to actually be able to do such thing. which is easy to avoid, and even if you die, is just 1 live out of 10, i literally dont care about lives as survivor, i have too many to care.


UV block: As survivors do, i just spam flares everywhere and look at the hunter at his eyes like saying "i DARE you to come closer, I DOUBLE DARE YOU" and just wait until it runs out or even run spamming flares over the way like its partyland.


SS Spit: Just actually try to take care of the zombie, you know, if you watch the anime "Naruto" it would be like hen Kakashi has to actually stop reading a book to take care of the fight. For those who dont know of the anime, it means that you, for once, have to actually care for where the hunter is.


Toxic Spit: Step 1: Locate spit. Step 2: Dont step on it. Step 3: Profit


Tackle: Spam jump/dodge until your keyboard yells at you for abuse. If they do somehow manage to tackle you, just heal and repeat.


Ground Pound: Just dodge away like you are a rabbit, and wait for him to fail the pound and then proceed to choose from a wide range of possibilities on how to kill the hunter. You can either humiliate him with 3 dropkicks in a row causing him to go in a real life depression or you can just instakill him with a combo that will leave him literally thinking why would he mutate to that monster in the first place, as being a survivor is more scary than a monster


Now for the objective of both parts.


Hunters: Kill him 10 times. just that, plain simple. Which means he is forced to attack almost always, being forced into bad situations over survivors who just either dont want to fight and just rush nests or just wait for you to take the first step.


Survivors: "Kill 5 nests. Dont mind the hunter, its the mother of all those eggs, he might try to kill you but just shine this cool UV light at him and you will be ok. Oh, and dont forget to dodge and jump if he gets close, you will thank me later."


So yeah, and what it is like in 2 or more players coop?


The hunter has to somehow separate them, which in some situations is impossible. Just figure, its already hard to kill a single flare spammer, think about 2, or 3, or 4!


There are more flares than you can count.


Experience as the hunter how they fight over who gets to kill you next as they all jump in your head like falling angels and DFA you over and over again, as they rush you and leave you with no energy.


If they arent that kind of bullies, they will just rush nests like everyone seems to do, meaning that 1, 2 or even 3 guys will act ias lighthouses for your face in case you dont know where they are and shine you untill you think you are in heaven. And if that isnt confusing and hard enough, they will even spam bows at you making the game look like its designed by Michael Bay.


So yeah, these are basically most of the reasons i find this game unbalanced and therefore i want to know if its being worked on, i did get on a comical and sometimes ironic tone as im that kind of guy that just likes to laugh, dont take it on the bad way, i just like to look things from the bright side and laugh at them.


There are quite lots of more things that i find unbalanced in this game, but i cant quite remember them all at once here, if i do feel like i will add some later when i have rested.


So yeah, are the devs working on some balance patch, or not?

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Nevermind, i issued the problem over and over again giving my honest opinions on the matter and no one even dares discussing, either because they cant find a counter argument or just dont bother


In any case, just want to let the devs know that i, again, quit the game.


I quitted the game for the first time after getting to rank appex predator and level 60 on release, cause im like that, i dont like leaving something half done, in this case half ranked.


Still, after last patch i decided to give it a try again to see if the new skills somewhat balanced things out.


Turns out it was even worse, now we didnt even have the spit + pounce combo, which would be ok for me if we had chances to kill good players in some other way.


But that is not the case, and not only did you give OP weapons (even more) to the survivors, but you also made it so the new hunter skills take ages to get (which leads me to believe that the hunter gamemode is as dead as i think it is, if you need to do this in order to get people to keep playing it, instead of balancig things out).


All that would be ok if atleast you adressed this as a problem and let the community know, but as far as im concerned, not only that isnt the case but apparently devs find the game as it is balanced.


As i said on some other post, that is ok with me, and so will leave the game with no more problems, just letting the devs know my opinion about the choices they are making, after all is our money that they are getting and that makes the company go on.


As far as the game is, its cool and has a great concept but gets boring to play singleplayer or coop after a while, making pvp the only attractive thing about it after that


So, if somewhere in the future i see a patch making things balanced i will come back and give it a try, otherwise i will just keep playing chivalry or metro 2033 (just got metro last light on summer sale, hooray)


So yeah, i hope the rest of the people who keep playing this game keep having fun unlike me, and hopefully the game will get somehow balanced in the future, time will tell.


That is all i have to say, game is already uninstalled and probably will remain like that for a long time, see ya guys, hopefully.


PS: Doublepost



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To pile on more chupacabra and complaints about the progression and balance of BTZ.


I've been playing FPS since the original DOOM.  I'm not an elite player, but I get the job done.  I've logged an embarrassing number of work weeks on the survivor side for a grown man. I've completed the mission the first time around, but refuse to enter Rais's tower a second time as the end game was that disappointing after what I thought was a brilliant story line in that Techland got us--well me anyway--invested in the characters.  Loved that.  Have the same feelings after a good movie.  But it gets a little old just killing zombies and trying to find every message and flag left unfound.


Enter BTZ...


Game play was a little awkward at first, but the learning curve short.  I quickly ran into an issue; player balancing.  Yes, I understand the lavel ranking with the green dots that show how close the host players is to you, but the game can have other much stronger players in it and enter at a later time.  Some players are so strong that you might get a couple hundred XP from spit stick or GP if you're lucky during the whole match.  Combine that with the difficulty of getting matches and it becomes a major bummer.


Anyway, the reason I even discovered this forum is because after my first mutation I stopped getting skill points after somewhere around level 17.  I thought it a glitch.  Then I started reading all of the complaints about the mutation leveling and then about the balancing.  Much of which I agree wholeheartedly.



I've never seen a level progression anywhere else in any game elsewhere.  Granted, I'm not an elite players not have I played a lot of games, but I simply don't get the thought process behind losing skillsets--especially when the skills aren't any stronger than when you had them before.  I just don't get it.  Until this gets fixed I'll probably just stay Mutant 1.  I'm not anal enough to start all over and do it twice more, for even longer times each, simply to pick up a couple of minor increases in spits.  The cost / benefit is simply not there.



No ranged weapons at all?  I get that the character is supposed to be a generally mindless zombie, but it is driven by a human brain, both in the game has a former human and in the game as the gamer.  Unlike all other zombies in the game the Alpha Zombie stalks humans, hide from dangers, lurks in the shadows while howling to intimidate, will sacrifice a spit in order to confuse or draw attention for a setup for a pounce.  So, why can't the zombie pick up a propane tank?  I'm still scratching my head over that one.  I can open a dang door for heaven's sake, but I can't pick up a tank and toss it out of my hiding spot or move it away from my nest after it's been planted by a survivor?  Even apes and monkeys throw stuff at each other.  The zombie should be able to pick up anything a survivor can pick up.


Speaking of ranged weapons, has anyone thought about the tendrils being used as a weapon?  You can kill a zombie with your grappling hook.  Why not allow a good hit with a tendril?  Even if the damage is as weak as the claw strike, it's better than nothing and adds a bit to these flares campers.


Another good use for the tendril would be to hook a survivor and draw him to you.  You can move very fast over terrain so the tendrils are strong enough to hook a human.  It doesn't have to be all the way to the zombie, maybe a few feet.  Enough to deal with the campers that stand in the open and pin you down with bows and guns.  You could even make it so it only moves then 20 feet and knocks them down.  the uses could be to pull them off roofs into your horde, pull them off the roofs in Old Town, or even pull them off a nest.  


Couple distance humans can be tendriled to mutant level and being able to yank a human up into the air enough that he takes major fall damage would be a massive incentive to mutation level up!


Oh!  Tendril items that can be picked up and toss them!  



Remove the GP and tackle miss punishments.  I understand the need for a hit to prevent spamming GPs, but a death shouldn't be the punishment for a miss.  Realistically, a miss should have the same effect of the actor as a hit.  I envision aerial ground pounds as a fall from a height, pound, and bounce back up into the air.  Then tendril away...  A direct hit should be the equivalent as "raining death from above."


A tackle dodge from a survivor should be able to countered with a roll to quickly regain your feet and counter the counter, not just lay there on your face while the survivor pounds on you.


I've noticed that a GP many times fail to active while you're being meleed.  Basically, you've UVed to dust and you can move, then your GP fails.  You die.  That's been a head scratcher for a while.  You should be able to tackle at any time like a survivor.  The amount for knock-back it dependent on your ground speed when initiated.  So, instead of just standing there taking hits and your GP not working, push the survivor off you.  It doesn't have to be far or even knock them down, but just off you enough to then initiate a GP or limp away.  (Maybe off a roof?)  Just get the survivor off you.



Things that would be sweet to see in the game;


  • I'd love to be able to talk to the survivors in the games.  No, not chat to other players, but that would be cool, too, though I understand why I wouldn't want that as a survivor while I'm trying to strategize with my teammates.  If I'm directly over the top of the survivor, why shouldn't I be able to hear what they are saying?  It would be no different than hearing what Rais's men say while in the game.  The volume would be distance dependent.  Okay, okay, it's to feed my darker ego while taunting the player with that gravelly voice with "Puny human.  Do you think I can not see you?  Your death is mere moments away!  Blah, blah."
  • Survivors shouldn't be the only ones who can camouflage.  The zombie could wallow in the eviscerated entrails of recently killed survivors to block the "ping" for a short time even if it doesn't remove you from the radar.  As long as the zombie is enter acting with the body it doesn't go away.  Combine this is the aforementioned ability to tendril humans, then you get a zombie who pounces a survivor, absconds with the body, and uses it to stalk the survivors with greater ease.

There are others, but this post is way too long as it is.  I probably wouldn't have posted anything it I didn't love the game so much even with all of the flaws.  I understand character balancing is difficult when the two sides have different skill sets, but the abilities the survivors have right now for the tactics they can now deploy puts the zombie at a disadvantage.  Instead of taking away survivor abilities add to the skill set of the zombie.  This would provide a far wider range of tactics and strategies, and provide defenses against top-tier survivors.  

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I like the idea about the tendrils on the survivors dealing damage or even better pushing them into you by some distance, that actually would be a neat skill that would open up for lots of possibilities and remove many problems on most cases (like survivors in coop just standing still in a traffic light where you can either try to spit them or just somehow try to get them down, in most cases ending in a "Death from above" to you)


But with the tendrils you could just pull them out of up there, would be way more tactical and sneaky than it is now, anything that helps out is far better than how bad the game is right now

Edited by frylander

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One of the most frustrating things about BTZ is the punishment on a miss.  Many a time I've thought I basically dropped on a survivor's head with a ground pound, but then the punishment kicks in and the survivor is rushing in from a distance to wail away on me.  Sometimes GP don't happen at all and i'm stuck in a melee with no stamina after being UVed to dust.  Unless the developers can do away with lag completely then any punishment due to lag is completely unfair.


Speaking of lag, the best I've seen in a ping is the second notch.  Most of the time it's just the dot.

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I like the idea of being able to pull humans closer to you it would probably help with against humans who dodge spam a lot. My only problem is how tech land will implement it into the game because if spits share the pool of points what will they make the tendril grab share, our stamina is my best bet.

Edited by kingsmall101

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Hitlarious that sounded quite rude saying that players having issues with the game sucks. Do you know how many ways a Human can kill a Night Hunter? And that's not even their job they're supposed to destroy the nest, not hunt the hunter.

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