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The dodging skill is the first skill survivors unlock in Dying Light, however it's the most useful skill in Be The Zombie mode. If you're ever in a 1v1 situation the survivor will spam this whenever you get near him and if you spit, ground pound, and tackle.

Even worse it has no cooldown I literally saw survivors dancing with it. But all the things I listed above is almost all the Night Hunter's skills only pounce can be dodged by UV light. Something that can be spammed infinite amount of times and dodges most of the Hunter's skills need to be dealt with.

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i believe taking away infinite stamina should be taken away 3 or 4 dodges as well as swings should render them tired like the hunter with stamina this would stop a number of things and make humans a more complex character to play not just a one button win all type this would also be usefull if this stamina would be affected by DFA as well as DK so that people cannnot spam locked moves that defy physics and DFA should take a full stamina bar to use

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your kidding me right.

 

the developers will not change dodge. its fine as it is.

 

once you change dodge, every survivor will lose be the zombie games.

 

because dodge is the only counter we have vs tackle, spits and smash, other zombies, goons

 

changing it to 3-4 dodges?

Edited by Chaos_Deception
Flaming.

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Then I guess having my spits dodged at point blank range isn't over powered at all? Also Xiao you said dodge is the counter to ground pound, tackle, and spits, that's almost all of are attack skills except for pounce which is countered by the UV light

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Xiao everyone is entitled to their own Opinion.

 

But I am Inclined to Agree with Reece and Dasorrow. Why? Because it is Very Clear that the Humans are Over Powered and The Night Hunter is Underpowered. This becomes even more Obvious when You have 2 or More Humans in the Game.

 

Which Invariably turns the Match into Hunt the Night Hunter. Which is not what Be The Zombie is About.

 

Granted, the Humans should have some Defence against the Night Hunter, but going Full Agro against the Night Hunter, I'm Sorry I don't agree with that. And I'm sure that is not what TECHLAND Intended.

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I find it easiest to kill survivors that want to kill me because they never focus on the nest, however people that are entitled to do nothing but go after the nest and use every exploit, and skills to their advantage. It seems nearly impossible to kills those types of survivors.

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Basically this is the cycle of these so called "pro" survivors. Dodge all Night Hunter's spits, shine UV light, dodge ground pound, kill the Night Hunter. Also did I mention that if you do get away it takes one minute for your spits and UV block to recharge?

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As i've said earlier: majority of hunters beat the majority of survivors. That is fact.

 

Survivors are stronger than hunters, but surely Techland made it this way? Think about it, you get invaded...it would be a bit weird if the hunter was stronger. Arguably it should be equal in strength or balanced, but the casual player which makes up about 95% of the survivors don't even know how to dodge efficiently, let alone kill a hunter.

 

Things do need to be balanced for competitive players. But definitely not changing dodge. Increasing hunters hp, reducing uv durability and limited flares is enough to tweak the game to ensure hunters have a chance. Just increasing the hunters hp by 20, will ensure it takes 2-3 arrows to kill hunter not 1-2. So won't even need to tweak the bow if the developers decide to increase the hp. Furthermore, more hp, will make it easier to play vs groups of 3 or 4 survivors. Perhaps maybe... each survivor that joins increases hunters hp by 50%?

 

I'll like to consider myself a "pro" survivor. And from my experience, its not that easy as you make it out to be to dodge spits, and ground pounds, including tackles. It actually holds a skill to it, if you're right next to a spit, it takes 2-3 dodges back to not get the spit on you, before you've even done 2 dodges, the spit has exploded. The same applies to ground pound. As for tackle, yes arguably is easy to dodge, but sometimes not always the case in few scenarios, such as just getting up from a ground pound, you can be tackled immediately, gives you a very small time gap to dodge.

 

If you were to reduce dodges to 3-4. Think about it. You can spam ground pound and tackle consistently. and throw 2-3 spits.  If we assume it takes 2 dodges to efficiently evade a spit and slam, we're already used up 33-50% of our "dodges" that you've petitioned the developers to engage upon. After dodging a slam, and tackle after that we're prone to die. In fact, in most cases against a decent hunter the survivor no matter how good WILL die without any means of evading the hunters attacks except pounce. You're therefore forcing survivors to play in groups of 3-4 to really utilize defeating a hunter. A decent hunt can just camp a nest and jump down with UV block and spam the hell out of you till your out of dodges (which believe me won't take long). Furthermore, what happens if we need to dodge from a goon, a zombie, or just dodge to get a better angle at hitting the hunter or evading their claws...?

 

Quote from Touka (experienced hunter player)

 

 

 

i think limiting dodge to 4 times may be too much, as a hunter myself i dont think any survivor can survive with only that, but limiting the flare ammount that they can provide forcing them to manage their resources in a more wiseful way is a better way to balance things out, as its more aproximate to what the hunter plays like.

 

Dodges don't need to be changed. Simple. You need to look at other things to change, such as buffing hunter hp (as stated). The survivor is fine as it is, its the hunter that needs changing.

 

Having spit and uv recharge rate as it is, seems fair...can you imagine facing hunters who spit every 10 seconds, it'll be near impossible. You need to utilize and play a good game to beat survivors. Use your skills wisely, just like how we use ours (e.g. uv). Remember, we have to kill nests not just evade or kill you (the hunter). You only objective is killing us, which shouldn't be too difficult if you get buffed slightly as I've stated above. Although arguably, it doesn't seem that difficult if you win majority of your games.

Edited by xiao

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Hi,

 

i already made my point on another post so ill be quick here

 

Hunters are punished hard for failing simple things while survivors can fail multiple times and still go on without much repercusion

 

Being brief, i think that the survivor needs to be more skillful with its resources as right now its just a spam of everything, like spam of flares, UV light, bows, weapons... there is no skill in that, while the hunter has very limited resources and without them its not a threat agaisnt a good player.

 

So, adding hard-like medkits that heal slowly, or maybe a limited ammount of medkits like 10 for all the round, or for instance 3 max that recharge overtime like spits.

 

Same for flares, either 10-15 max per round or 3 max at same time and once you use one it starts recharging.

 

This way there wouldnt be more spam and you would get to see some survivors actually THINKING what they are doing instead of playing "flare launcher simulator" or something like that.

 

To put it another way, survivor right now its like an agro class, mindless playstyle, whiile the hunters have to be all strategic and careful with the resources.

 

A good survivor can easily avoid the spits and tackles/slams by spamming dodge, and melee does nothing as they heal rom 100 to 200 in 2 secs just by getting away 2 meters.

 

 

That would be also a good idea maybe, to increase medkit usage time, if the idea about the max medkits is not to your liking, atleast that way it wouldnt be that OP.

 

 

As for 4 vs 1, i think that a boost on the hunters base stats based on how many players are in the game would be kinda needed, atleast now, maybe if you actually balance more the game its not needed, would have to see that then

 

Hope i made my point clear

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Xiao the reason most Hunters win majority amount of Humans are because they don't think at all and blindly fall into the Night Hunter's tactics and traps, however if it's a pro survivor they will dodge your traps and tactics. You're basically useless and really have no way to counter them.

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Xiao the reason most Hunters win majority amount of Humans are because they don't think at all and blindly fall into the Night Hunter's tactics and traps, however if it's a pro survivor they will dodge your traps and tactics. You're basically useless and really have no way to counter them.

Surely that's only reasonable and expected for a pro survivor to dodge a hunters traps and counter-play a hunters tactics.

 

but, Reece, you've not addressed my reasoning behind not incorporating dodge nerf, or idealising it is a bad idea to... im going to assume you agree with the points i raised.

Edited by xiao

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There doesn't need to be a limit for dodges but rather a cool down between dodges. Maybe a second or so, enough to punish people who spam dodges when in a spit or ground pound radius instead of just dodging once. It only takes one dodge to get out of a spit radius so survivors should be required to learn that timing and escape properly not just spam dodge to make it themselves impossible moving targets.

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There doesn't need to be a limit for dodges but rather a cool down between dodges. Maybe a second or so, enough to punish people who spam dodges when in a spit or ground pound radius instead of just dodging once. It only takes one dodge to get out of a spit radius so survivors should be required to learn that timing and escape properly not just spam dodge to make it themselves impossible moving targets.

Not entirely true. (about only taking one dodge)

 

Takes 2-3 dodges to get out of spit if the spit is close to you (like right next to you). If it is not near, takes 1 dodge. So arguably hunters issue for not spitting closer or leading shots.

 

And i think dodge cool-down is around 1 second already. It's fine as it is. unless you want to make it 1.5-2seconds, which i guess is reasonable.

 

add me: saengjonja xIAO

Edited by xiao

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No you don't understand it's not how much people spam them, it's about how people counters nearly all of the Night Hunter's skills with just one skill! It can dodge tackle, ground pound, and spits. And 2 of the new skills are spits. Only the fact that one is instant and only takes one dodge to get out of.

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you still don't understand that by nerfing dodge, you're pretty much nerfing the only escape survivors have, and thus hunters, not just winning the majority of games against noobs and decent, but will also win majority vs pro survivors.

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Lets just all agree in that the survivors need a big nerf or the hunter needs a big fu***** buff for this to be balanced.

 

That being clear, just post ideas about how would you make the game more balanced and let the devs decide which ones are actually worth it (Supposing they actually read all this)

 

As i stated and i write again with more info, i think it would both be cool and balance to have survivor resources

 

For instance, 3 medkits max that recharge overtime after you use one of them, to avoid heal spam and thus making melee unworthy. Recharge time on this should be bigger, or maybe less medkits 

 

Another resource should be flares, with 3 max and after you drop 1 it starts rechargin, just like spits. Therefore avoiding spam and making it more tactical.

 

Another resource could be ammo, with like 3 or 2 mags, that after you completely deplete one, it starts recharging so after 1 min you have another magazine.

 

These are just examples on what i would do to balance things.

 

 

Also, it would be neat to improve basic hunter stats on 2 players or more, like more hp for each player.

 

Still maybe that last thing its not that necesary if you actually balance the 1 vs 1 games.

 

So yeah, still waiting for a word from someone who can actually make something worth out of this post and its ideas, if no one who can do things about this is reading the post then this is losing time in my opinion.

 

So again, lets try to focus on giving ideas as we all know that survivors are OP, and let the devs decide which idea to implement.

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i agree, dodging can almost counter any skills of the hunter. BTZ is too unbalanced, the experienced survivors, crushes any hunter. The opposite is much rarer (nonexistent imo).

 

The opposite, I assume you mean experienced hunters, crushes any survivor.. well thats true and is not rare.. hunters win majority of there games, just when they faced an experience survivor they'll lose, or itll be very hard to win. 

 

and I agree with above post

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The reason Humans loosing a lot of their matches is because most of them just want to kill the Night Hunter and never go after the nest. These guys are easy to ground pound, tackle, and get a spit on, maybe sometimes a pounce.

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Not entirely true. (about only taking one dodge)

 

Takes 2-3 dodges to get out of spit if the spit is close to you (like right next to you). If it is not near, takes 1 dodge. So arguably hunters issue for not spitting closer or leading shots.

 

And i think dodge cool-down is around 1 second already. It's fine as it is. unless you want to make it 1.5-2seconds, which i guess is reasonable.

 

add me: saengjonja xIAO

 

 

There's definitely no cooldown on it, otherwise this wouldn't be possible:

 

 

He dodged once while the spit was stuck and then again just as the spit exploded. He couldn't have done that if there was even a second of cooldown between dodges.

 

As far as it taking one dodge you can dodge once and the walk backwards and escape a spit that was stuck directly near you.

 

Also I'm PS4 so we can't play.

 

Lets just all agree in that the survivors need a big nerf or the hunter needs a big fu***** buff for this to be balanced.

 

That being clear, just post ideas about how would you make the game more balanced and let the devs decide which ones are actually worth it (Supposing they actually read all this)

 

As i stated and i write again with more info, i think it would both be cool and balance to have survivor resources

 

For instance, 3 medkits max that recharge overtime after you use one of them, to avoid heal spam and thus making melee unworthy. Recharge time on this should be bigger, or maybe less medkits 

 

Another resource should be flares, with 3 max and after you drop 1 it starts rechargin, just like spits. Therefore avoiding spam and making it more tactical.

 

Another resource could be ammo, with like 3 or 2 mags, that after you completely deplete one, it starts recharging so after 1 min you have another magazine.

 

These are just examples on what i would do to balance things.

 

 

Also, it would be neat to improve basic hunter stats on 2 players or more, like more hp for each player.

 

Still maybe that last thing its not that necesary if you actually balance the 1 vs 1 games.

 

So yeah, still waiting for a word from someone who can actually make something worth out of this post and its ideas, if no one who can do things about this is reading the post then this is losing time in my opinion.

 

So again, lets try to focus on giving ideas as we all know that survivors are OP, and let the devs decide which idea to implement.

 

We've been doing this for months. If you disregard dasorrows one line threads there are plenty of topics where we discuss the various issues this mode has and some of the things that would make it better. In fact one such change suggested by one of our members here (Doctor Purrington) was implemented in this latest patch. That was the UV light start up cost as well as a cooldown increase which has been widely suggested since before this section even existed.

 

EDIT: There's already a cooldown for flares. If you throw 3 consecutive flares you must wait about 2 seconds before throwing another one. However this cooldown can be bypassed if you space out your throws and the timing between each.

Edited by jcks

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That video just shows how buggy this game can be

 

other bugs include hunters being impaled but not dying, cannisters not doing any damage etc

 

from that video he only dodged 2, and arguably 3 times, in what seemed like 7 seconds, so it shows nothing.

 

At the point of the fight, he jumped up, got spit on him, dodged back, then jumped up again as you ground pounded, he then flew back but dodged back...i dunno why he didn't get knocked down...but its either lag, or bug. you can do 3 dodges in 2 seconds though, there is a small cooldown buts its barely noticeable.

 

Anyway dodging isn't the issue, its other things.

 

Heres some of the ideas i have:

 

Be the zombie ideas:

- Ammo for hard difficulty invasions in shops

- Force hard difficulty in invasions

- Improve claw damage

- Reduce UV durability

- Increase Hunter hp by 50-100, or by 50% per survivor (so 150% increase 4v1)

- Option to remove survivor senses to make more challenging

- Decrease %chance for gold weapons, its too high.

- More ranks after Ultimate survivor  /  Apex predator

- Outfit rewards for achieving various ranks at Be the Zombie (encourage more players)

- a UTAN system which kicks anyone using cheat engine

- Maximum flares thrown in Invasion to 15-20. (stop flare spamming)

- Fix AI for Horde, spawn underneath you, buggy, sometimes spawn on roofs and in safe zones

- Leaderboards for be the zombie

- Introduce 4 survivors vs 2 hunters

       - HP of hunters increases by 50

       - Nests remain same

       - Increase lives from 10 to 15

- Reduce spit and uv block recharge by 10seconds

- Fix rais gun

- Remove multiple goons on rooftops on Oldtown (1 is enough)

- Fix bug of cannisters exploding on nests but doing 0 damage

- Fix bug where hunter or human should be impaled, but are not.

- Night hunter booster not disappearing after death, continues till ran out

- Reduce durability of poison spit, but increase damage

Edited by xiao

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My point is the cool down is not one second. That's what the video is proving.

 

Also this is more of an exploit than a bug. Just like how survivors can crouch in a corner when spit stuck and avoid the spit entirely. Or how raising a riot shield will block spits in all directions. This game is full of exploits on both sides that have been slowly taken out since the beginning, especially on the night hunters side.

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Be the zombie ideas:

 

- Reduce UV durability

- Decrease %chance for gold weapons, its too high.

- Maximum flares thrown in Invasion to 15-20. (stop flare spamming)

- Introduce 4 survivors vs 2 hunters

- Remove multiple goons on rooftops on Oldtown (1 is enough)

- Night hunter booster not disappearing after death, continues till ran out

- Reduce durability of poison spit, but increase damage

 

1.) Not sure what this means?

2.) Gold weapons don't really matter. Damage scaling prevents any one weapon from OHKs so the drop rate is irrelevant

3.) Ten flares per life is much more forgiving. These games go on forever so having to rely a maximum of 20 flares is a death sentence.

4.) Introducing a second player in 4v1 asymmetric gameplay is not balance. At this point it starts to lose it's asymmetric aspect and turns into more of a team death match. If the game requires 2 hunters then the hunter is not strong enough. The solution is to either buff the hunter or nerf the survivor.

5.) I rarely see one every 5 matches. Not sure this is a huge problem.

6.) This needs to not happen. Boosters should give survivors perks for the duration of the life they used it on and no more. With the amount of dupers who have well over a thousand this is just giving them even more of an advantage.

7.) Not sure what this means again. Also dps increase would be OP. They already die fast enough.

Edited by jcks

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Did you not get the point? He DODGED the spits even when it stuck to him!

Did you not get the point? its a bug, you cant dodge out of a spit when its stuck....read my post seriously man.

 

Game has plenty of bugs, they're not exploits, shield is supposed to block spits, how it is, even from all directions.

 

Besides just tested, as previous post says, its about 0.6 seconds per dodge, not 1-second, either way close enough, you cant dodge more than 2 times in a second is what I'm saying.

 

@jcks

 

1.) Not sure what this means? Reduce UV light longevity, so instead of it taking, i don't know, 15 seconds to drain and become in-available, make it 10.

2.) Gold weapons don't really matter. Damage scaling prevents any one weapon from OHKs so the drop rate is irrelevant Yes, but theres so many of them, they may as well not even be rare anymore. Better rewards are needed.

3.) Ten flares per life is much more forgiving. These games go on forever so having to rely a maximum of 20 flares is a death sentence. 15 seems reasonable since its in the middle of 10 and 20. 10 is fine also

4.) Introducing a second player in 4v1 asymmetric gameplay is not balance. At this point it starts to lose it's asymmetric aspect and turns into more of a team death match. If the game requires 2 hunters then the hunter is not strong enough. The solution is to either buff the hunter or nerf the survivor. Arguably it would be fun though, and tbh since 4v1 is almost impossible for most hunters, it would give a nice edge to game.

5.) I rarely see one every 5 matches. Not sure this is a huge problem. It can be if you play survivor on old town, some nests have 1 goon per, but theres 2 nest spawns where there are 2-3 goons...which is ridiculous to say its on a rooftop.

6.) This needs to not happen. Boosters should give survivors perks for the duration of the life they used it on and no more. With the amount of dupers who have well over a thousand this is just giving them even more of an advantage. Well not everyone duplicated. and invasions is a add-on, we shouldn't suffer losing out on resources, although im thankful you get flares per hunter win now.

7.) Not sure what this means again. Also dps increase would be OP. They already die fast enough. Basically increase the damage of the poison spit, but reduce how long it lasts. I dunno how long it lasts, maybe 25 seconds? either way its too long to revive a team-mate etc.

 

I assume you agree with my other points. :D

Edited by xiao

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