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Agent Piltdown

I Maxed Out A Level 3 Mutation Night Hunter, Here Are My Findings

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Edit: Here's the video...

 

 

First I imagine people are curious what the stage 2 and 3 mutations look like. Here's the stage 2:

TSxku4G.jpg

It becomes a sickly green colour with more pronounced spines and the beginning of some claw like protrusions along its arms and shoulders, and also is starting to show a sort of crown of teeth on its head.

And the stage 3:
 

0tg0Jz2.jpg

The spines on its back have become even larger and fused together to completely shield its previously exposed back. It's returned to the colour it was originally before mutations, the claws on its arms and shoulders have sprouted more and now he's sporting a nifty mutated zombie crown as the king of the zombies.

The abilities:

They all share cooldown timers with Horde summoner, UV suppressor spits and UV block charges, unfortunately.

Toxic Spit:

Shared with Horde summoner spit recharge. Toxic spit explodes instantly and becomes roughly as lethal as those toxic spills you come across, like the one outside the video store in the Slums. Maybe a bit stronger than the spitter/toads attack, I'll have to test it. It's radius seems to be just short of the normal spits reach, so one dodge would be enough to get out of it I'd think. It will kill a human with 150 health in about 7 seconds. It will stay on the ground for 30 seconds before becoming inert.

One tactic I've tried with it is to ground pound then spit where they land. Maybe mix in a tackle to lock them in place if I can knock them into a wall and keep them in the puddle, even if they're guaranteed to dodge. People are quick to try and get out of it so you need to keep up the pressure if you want to use it to kill someone with.

Sense suppressor spit:

Shared with UV suppressor. Sticks the same as the normal spits, and disables a players survivor sense for 1 minute. When they try and use it they'll glow red briefly and no 'ping' will be sent out at all, it's completely non functional from what I've seen. This is the best ability of the lot as I find it relatively easy to pounce people after using it, I usually jump on the floor behind them to mess with their reactions of stopping me mid pounce. The 1 minute timer is generous enough to follow up with whatever dirty tricks you want. Stick them, run away out of sight, come after them again but maybe don't use your tendrils near them and jog close to them to pounce them.

UV Heal:

Shared with UV block. You punch the ground and start recharging whatever resource (health/stamina) you're missing until its full, not being able to move whilst it does, then a second later you can move again. If you activate it in mid air you'll fall down to the floor quickly like when doing an aerial ground pound and start recharging when you're on the floor. You're very vulnerable whilst doing this and also afterwards when your UV block fails immediately after the animation.

It doesn't seem like a very fair trade for a UV block charge, you're wanting to run away not stand in place whilst using it. This ability would be decent if it just recharged your health and stamina whilst still moving and activating a ground pound with no charge up if standing still, but as it is it's just something to use when you're hoping to pounce someone quickly after you've managed to escape with a sliver of stamina left, anything else and the survivor is going to catch you before it's done I think.

As for the mutations themselves there's no increase in health or stamina and your claw attacks don't seem to do any more damage than before you mutated. For the time investment involved in mutations to stage 3 they really, really should change this. And that's the worse part of this update. With the first mutation you stop gaining skill points normally after level 14. You get one every other level, or two, or three even. To mutate 3 times you have to get to level 35, then 41, then to max out level 44. That's over 300,000 XP each time. Want to know how I felt after doing that? Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze5FPLZ0CE0&feature=youtu.be&t=11s

This is asking far too much of people given the meta game that's cropped up these days with veteran survivors actively hunting the night hunter, having to play in gimp mode 3 times is just no good. I hope it's changed to straight levels. It was just not fun after awhile.

I'll be making a video also from the survivors point of view edited in hopefully soon, but for people who are playing Night Hunters in the meantime I hope this information helps.

Edited by Agent Piltdown

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Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. Kudos for getting there so quickly.

 

Gotta say mutation level 3 is pretty baller. He actually looks somewhat formidable. Too bad it's all aesthetics though and none of that actually does anything gameplay wise (armor, increased swipe attack, etc.)

 

A shared cooldown sounds counterproductive. I was hoping with the addition of two more spits that they were trying to solve the problem of insane cooldowns in 1v1s (2 minutes I believe). At least with four spits with independent cooldowns you could do some micromanaging to make sure you've always got at least one spit for every situation.

 

Toxic spit lasts much longer than I thought it would. That's a pretty good way to defend nests in 4v1 matches while waiting on cooldowns since the time is reduced to like 35 or 45 seconds. Does the night hunter also get hurt while inside the AOE? I would imagine so since it'd be kind of lame to camp in your own traps.

 

Sense suppressor is about what I expected. It sucks that it's a spit and not something that can be activated like camouflage but at least in 1v1s this is a great ability to have.

 

I feared that UV heal would keep you stationary from the preview example. I'm pretty sure everyone was thinking it'd be a way to heal/recharge on the move. Instead you have to successfully escape first and find a safe place to use it. I know you said a UV block can't be used immediate after but what about the other way around? UV block to get away then UV heal.

 

Yeah the prestige system wasn't the best idea. In a game like Tomb Raider it can work out because those perks don't really define your character as much as they do here. A level 1 night hunter with no abilities has no chance against even a level 10 survivor. I tried leveling up with a friend last night using tackles and it took me almost 46 tackles at one point to jump from level 4 to 5. I just decided to try and organize a bigger group because it would take days just doing it in a 1v1 setting. Now that I know that skill points spread out after a while 4v1 seems like the only viable option to level back up relatively fast. To me these abilities don't seem powerful enough to warrant this much effort to unlock.

 

You must have had some extreme patience leveling up this fast though, I'm not even really looking forward to leveling up anymore.

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Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. Kudos for getting there so quickly.

Happy to help, I've read a few of your posts here from time to time and I appreciate your positive attitude, glad I could offer something back

 

Gotta say mutation level 3 is pretty baller. He actually looks somewhat formidable. Too bad it's all aesthetics though and none of that actually does anything gameplay wise (armor, increased swipe attack, etc.)

He does look alot more menacing. The humpback is a little weird to look at when he's standing still but when he's darting around it looks like something vaguely human thats been torn apart by tumors, it's a freaky and unique look for a monster.

 

I really wish it upgraded those stats too, it would of been a nice reward.

 

A shared cooldown sounds counterproductive. I was hoping with the addition of two more spits that they were trying to solve the problem of insane cooldowns in 1v1s (2 minutes I believe). At least with four spits with independent cooldowns you could do some micromanaging to make sure you've always got at least one spit for every situation.

This was my hope too, having access to them all often in 1v1 would of made things more interesting, it would still require skill to set up kills but I think would of been fun to play around with. Like using the UV spit to snuff out flares at a distance when hunting a survivor in panic mode with suppressed senses, or tagging someone with the horde then making them get down off whatever rooftop they were on with the toxic spit. The UI is all set up for it, it's disappointing they didn't give Night Hunters access to them all without waiting for ages and letting the survivors win.

 

Toxic spit lasts much longer than I thought it would. That's a pretty good way to defend nests in 4v1 matches while waiting on cooldowns since the time is reduced to like 35 or 45 seconds. Does the night hunter also get hurt while inside the AOE? I would imagine so since it'd be kind of lame to camp in your own traps.

Ah I thought I should of clarified that, but no, the night hunter is immune to his own toxic puddles. I've used them sometimes for a reprieve from attack but you're still at risk of having your stamina drained completely or if the survivor has enough health just taking the hit to kill you. It's a very interesting ability though, it can set up alot of unusual traps to spring or give you an edge in a straight hand to hand fight, if you're swiping at the survivors with your claws and they're more determined to hit you back they sometimes fail to notice they're turning into grey goo as you strafe them.

 

Sense suppressor is about what I expected. It sucks that it's a spit and not something that can be activated like camouflage but at least in 1v1s this is a great ability to have.

This ability should of been in the mode day one, and some way to activate it yourself at some higher cost would of been ideal. It makes things much more like it should be with the survivor under pressure trying to pinpoint where the night hunter is, causing them to panic because their back is exposed all of a sudden. Survivors do deserve the tracking ability to have a chance of fending the hunters off, but not more than 50% of the time IMO. It's much more in keeping with the concept of the game when they're being actively stalked and hunted, it makes the mode even more unique and memorable. People generally like being surprised and scared if you look at how Alien: Isolation was received, just as long as they understand the tools they need to survive and have a fair chance. At least in my opinion.

 

It makes things alot funnier too, being able to set up straightforward ambushes by crouching so the hunter doesn't breathe so heavy then pouncing the players as they turn a corner is a good laugh. Because you want to be on the ground floor with the survivor when they approach you're forced to smash down destructable doors and crates to get a good spot to hide too and you really feel like you're roleplaying a night hunter.

 

I've been playing a few matches since and there's a few weaknesses I've noticed though. If it's a full moon in game the survivors can see you zipping about in the air, and also if they aim at you, the night hunters health and stamina bar flashes on screen for the survivor and they know to turn on their lamp, so you can't blend in to scenery. It would be nice if they took that out, at least when you have suppressed them.

 

I feared that UV heal would keep you stationary from the preview example. I'm pretty sure everyone was thinking it'd be a way to heal/recharge on the move. Instead you have to successfully escape first and find a safe place to use it. I know you said a UV block can't be used immediate after but what about the other way around? UV block to get away then UV heal.

I must of phrased that poorly, no you can activate a UV block straight afterwards or before if you want. The UV heal uses a charge of UV block though, so you'd need to be lucky to have 2 charges to spare. On a side note we should be able to store 4 of them ideally, not just 2.

 

I've tried it a little more, you can take a few hits when its active so if you hurt a survivor and get him to attack you in a toxic puddle and then activate the uv heal, the survivor may have tunnel vision and not notice they're going to die from the puddle.

 

Yeah the prestige system wasn't the best idea. In a game like Tomb Raider it can work out because those perks don't really define your character as much as they do here. A level 1 night hunter with no abilities has no chance against even a level 10 survivor. I tried leveling up with a friend last night using tackles and it took me almost 46 tackles at one point to jump from level 4 to 5. I just decided to try and organize a bigger group because it would take days just doing it in a 1v1 setting. Now that I know that skill points spread out after a while 4v1 seems like the only viable option to level back up relatively fast. To me these abilities don't seem powerful enough to warrant this much effort to unlock.

I'm struggling to figure out why they chose that path. Maybe they have access to some sort of metrics that show new players are being scared off by night hunters and disabling the mode, even with all of the boons they have to fend them off? Either way having run the gauntlet it's incredibly stale grinding ranks to become competitive again.

 

The night hunter doesn't become an OP monster with the way it's setup up now, in fact it only really tips the balance a little bit back in the right direction and not nearly enough yet I feel so there's no need to make it so only a very few dedicated reach that milestone. Maybe at most the real grinding should only start when you've bought all the vanilla abilities and you're trying to unlock the new ones, because you just can't live without the standard set these days, nor should you be forced to, it just ain't fun.

 

I initially tried grinding with spit sticks and tackles but it's much better to kill survivors and finish matches, it goes alot quicker.

 

You must have had some extreme patience leveling up this fast though, I'm not even really looking forward to leveling up anymore.

Cheers and sorry to discourage you a little but the truth needed to be told I feel. After level 14 it becomes very aggravating. Maybe by pointing it out the devs will be gracious enough to tweak the rules some so no one else has to slog through it the way I did, at least that's what I hope.

Edited by Agent Piltdown

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Maybe by pointing it out the devs will be gracious enough to tweak the rules some so no one else has to slog through it the way I did, at least that's what I hope.

 

I think that might be asking for too much. It just seems like they've just dropped-the-ball with this. I like BTZ, I really wish they would work out the kinks. It seems like every "fix" they make it ends up either not being enough, creating a new problem, or it's too little too late.

 

And let me have my turn to say thanks for showing everyone what it's all about. I certainly would'nt want to go through this.

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I'll join the others in offering some kudos, that was a great review of the new abilities.

 

Can't wait to begin using Toxic, sounds like a fun ability!

 

I still hold this mode in high regard, but I've got to agree with the various negatives as well. The moment I heard how the progression system worked I knew it was a poor decision. If the developers didn't want new players to get flogged and demoralized, they shouldn't have forced us Apex Predators to farm them for 3 complete re-levels just to acquire the new abilities.

 

It's all we can do, because once we've leveled up we just have to reset again and go back to fighting low-level, low-skill Humans.

 

I think all three of the abilities have their uses, but sharing cooldowns? The base skill-related issue between Humans and Night Hunters is the fact that the Humans have so many non-cooldown abilities at their disposal. 4 Spits and a new ability could have definitely helped, but it's essentially 2 and 1 again.

Edited by DoctorPurrington

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After farming a bit and trying out the new abilities I can actually say that I'm no longer against having a shared cooldown. Here's why:

 

Sense suppressor spit takes a full minute to wear off. In an actual match this seems like a very long time. In a match with 2 or more players you will have another sense suppressor spit before the first one fully wears off. Combine that with independent cooldowns for UV suppressor spit and you're looking at a bad time for the survivor. Now that I've seen the ability in action and experienced first hand I can agree more with their decision.

Edited by jcks

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After farming a bit and trying out the new abilities I can actually say that I'm no longer against having a shared cooldown. Here's why:

 

Sense suppressor spit takes a full minute to wear off. In an actually match this seems like a very long time. In a match with 2 or more players you will have another sense suppressor spit before the first one fully wears off. Combine that with independent cooldowns for UV suppressor spit and you're looking at a bad time for the survivor. Now that I've seen the ability in action and experienced first hand I can agree more with their decision.

 

Is there an icon to let the Hunter know that it's still in effect? Similar to the Horde icon that appears above a person affected by Horde Spit.

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Is there an icon to let the Hunter know that it's still in effect? Similar to the Horde icon that appears above a person affected by Horde Spit.

 

Yup they glow yellow and have an eye icon over their heads.

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Yup they glow yellow and have an eye icon over their heads.

 

B-e-a-utiful. Glad to hear.

 

I still have reservations on the choice. It forces Hunters who use the Sense disruption skill to, for the most part, be unable to use abilities beyond Pounce after expending a UV Spit cooldown. The two together would make an excellent combination, but alone it puts Hunters in the usual, "I just used one of my Spits, and I only have one left." Using two Spits, when you only have two, to kill a Human is not efficient.

 

It sounded like Sense and UV would go excellently together. What prevents Humans from simply tossing down a Flare every few seconds in an open area? There are ways around this, obviously, especially when you can't be "Sensed," but the combination of techniques seemed like such an appealing "hunting" tactic. Setting up a trap, one step at a time, is what a Hunter does.

 

It is exceptional that the Hunter has been given more options - it's exactly what we wanted, and it's exactly what we needed. However, when those options share a cooldown, it gives off the vibe that those options don't coexist. The issue of being a Hunter and having no abilities and less-than-optimal CQC after a hit-and-run engagement still presents itself.

 

Essentially, we've been handed four swords when we only have two hands. I'm not Roronoa Zoro!

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B-e-a-utiful. Glad to hear.

 

I still have reservations on the choice. It forces Hunters who use the Sense disruption skill to, for the most part, be unable to use abilities beyond Pounce after expending a UV Spit cooldown. The two together would make an excellent combination, but alone it puts Hunters in the usual, "I just used one of my Spits, and I only have one left." Using two Spits, when you only have two, to kill a Human is not efficient.

 

It sounded like Sense and UV would go excellently together. What prevents Humans from simply tossing down a Flare every few seconds in an open area? There are ways around this, obviously, especially when you can't be "Sensed," but the combination of techniques seemed like such an appealing "hunting" tactic. Setting up a trap, one step at a time, is what a Hunter does.

 

It is exceptional that the Hunter has been given more options - it's exactly what we wanted, and it's exactly what we needed. However, when those options share a cooldown, it gives off the vibe that those options don't coexist. The issue of being a Hunter and having no abilities and less-than-optimal CQC after a hit-and-run engagement still presents itself.

 

Essentially, we've been handed four swords when we only have two hands. I'm not Roronoa Zoro!

 

 

Better learn how to use those teeth ;p

 

Yeah I see where you're coming from but I still feel it was sound decision. If you have two spits stocked up the sense suppressor will only take one, leaving you with a UV spit to launch when they do decided to hide in flares. And it doesn't have to be immediately, you have time to escape and then creep back up on them and figure out what the best angle is to launch a spit followed with a pounce (if you crouch walk you're heavy breathing is much quieter). Things get even crazier once you have a lobby of 2 or more players since the spit cooldown recharges faster than the effect wears off giving you more of a chance to "Spit n' Run" while keeping their senses disabled.

 

I don't have all the skills yet so some of this is pure speculation but from what I've seen on the survivor side it's definitely a game changer in lobbies of 2 or more (if you hit them that is).

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Im on the ps4, games show up as 4/4 but you disconnect every time you try to join.

 

The patch that went live today was supposed to fix some of the matchmaking issues for PS4 and PC.

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Ok everyone, finally got finished making the video.



Fight footage is from 3 quick and dirty matches 1v1 because of matchmaking issues. I try to show some of the new tactics available and how vulnerable survivors in close quarters combat are when sense suppressed. I did die a few times when my friend got off some heals in time but for the most part it was about trying to control what he does, which seems to work. When he was sense suppressed he admitted it really messed with his timings and ability to react.
 

I think that might be asking for too much. It just seems like they've just dropped-the-ball with this. I like BTZ, I really wish they would work out the kinks. It seems like every "fix" they make it ends up either not being enough, creating a new problem, or it's too little too late.

And let me have my turn to say thanks for showing everyone what it's all about. I certainly wouldn't want to go through this.


For the most part I agree. BTZ could be what really makes the game and keeps people playing the campaign but the devs are struggling to find the right balance for everything at the moment, and areas which I see could be really fun for both parties haven't been explored to their full potential.

This is a little off topic, but I wish we had an alternate mode where we could just invade games when players are trying to do the story at night and Night Hunters simply try and kill them whilst everything else works as normal, Rais' men appear, volatiles as well, etc, and we only have 1 life which we use to get as much XP as possible. Maybe with the sequel, fingers crossed lol.

And cheers. I have my doubts my suggestions would be picked up too, but it's worth trying I feel. The abilities are kind of fun and everyone should have a reasonable chance to try them.
 

I'll join the others in offering some kudos, that was a great review of the new abilities.

Can't wait to begin using Toxic, sounds like a fun ability!

I still hold this mode in high regard, but I've got to agree with the various negatives as well. The moment I heard how the progression system worked I knew it was a poor decision. If the developers didn't want new players to get flogged and demoralized, they shouldn't have forced us Apex Predators to farm them for 3 complete re-levels just to acquire the new abilities.

It's all we can do, because once we've leveled up we just have to reset again and go back to fighting low-level, low-skill Humans.

I think all three of the abilities have their uses, but sharing cooldowns? The base skill-related issue between Humans and Night Hunters is the fact that the Humans have so many non-cooldown abilities at their disposal. 4 Spits and a new ability could have definitely helped, but it's essentially 2 and 1 again.


Thanks, I'd also like to say I've really enjoyed watching your videos. When you get to stage 3 mutation and you feel motivated I hope to see some fight footage with them.

Toxic is alot of fun, it really screws with some of the survivors rehearsed tactics and leaves them at your mercy (no mercy!), so far at least.

I do enjoy the mode alot, the only reason I was determined to put in the time to level up so much was because it's something I hope to return to over the years. But there's alot of flaws in design holding it back from being just that much more amazing, something that actually really defines the game like that alternate mode I mentioned just now, but in the meantime these punitive measures to slow down leveling up to maximum are going to stop alot of people at the gate. The noob farming that might follow will only hurt participation from survivors as time goes on and there's likely to be only two types of people left playing survivors, those that are amazing at it and enjoy winning all the time and exploiters.

The long effect of sense suppression helps balance out the loss of UV suppression even 1v1, and with increased recharge with more players it's less of an issue again, but still I can't help feeling they all should of had separate cooldowns, it would of been more fun and not too overpowered I feel, given the potential skill levels we have to contend with.

Edited by Agent Piltdown

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Ok everyone, finally got finished making the video.

 

 

Fight footage is from 3 quick and dirty matches 1v1 because of matchmaking issues. I try to show some of the new tactics available and how vulnerable survivors in close quarters combat are when sense suppressed. I did die a few times when my friend got off some heals in time but for the most part it was about trying to control what he does, which seems to work. When he was sense suppressed he admitted it really messed with his timings and ability to react.

 

For the most part I agree. BTZ could be what really makes the game and keeps people playing the campaign but the devs are struggling to find the right balance for everything at the moment, and areas which I see could be really fun for both parties haven't been explored to their full potential.

 

This is a little off topic, but I wish we had an alternate mode where we could just invade games when players are trying to do the story at night and Night Hunters simply try and kill them whilst everything else works as normal, Rais' men appear, volatiles as well, etc, and we only have 1 life which we use to get as much XP as possible. Maybe with the sequel, fingers crossed lol.

 

And cheers. I have my doubts my suggestions would be picked up too, but it's worth trying I feel. The abilities are kind of fun and everyone should have a reasonable chance to try them.

 

Thanks, I'd also like to say I've really enjoyed watching your videos. When you get to stage 3 mutation and you feel motivated I hope to see some fight footage with them.

 

Toxic is alot of fun, it really screws with some of the survivors rehearsed tactics and leaves them at your mercy (no mercy!), so far at least.

 

I do enjoy the mode alot, the only reason I was determined to put in the time to level up so much was because it's something I hope to return to over the years. But there's alot of flaws in design holding it back from being just that much more amazing, something that actually really defines the game like that alternate mode I mentioned just now, but in the meantime these punitive measures to slow down leveling up to maximum are going to stop alot of people at the gate. The noob farming that might follow will only hurt participation from survivors as time goes on and there's likely to be only two types of people left playing survivors, those that are amazing at it and enjoy winning all the time and exploiters.

 

The long effect of sense suppression helps balance out the loss of UV suppression even 1v1, and with increased recharge with more players it's less of an issue again, but still I can't help feeling they all should of had separate cooldowns, it would of been more fun and not too overpowered I feel, given the potential skill levels we have to contend with.

 

Thank you! Glad to hear you enjoyed. I want to get motivated and make more videos, but there's a few life-issues in the way as well right now.

 

Based on what Jcks was saying, I figured the Sense supression's long time limit would be a boon. Still, I've gotta agree with you and stick with my original thought; it'd be much more fun for the Night Hunter to have 4 spits available, not just two!

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Thank you! Glad to hear you enjoyed. I want to get motivated and make more videos, but there's a few life-issues in the way as well right now.

 

Based on what Jcks was saying, I figured the Sense supression's long time limit would be a boon. Still, I've gotta agree with you and stick with my original thought; it'd be much more fun for the Night Hunter to have 4 spits available, not just two!

 

No problem. And ah ok, no worries. Something to look forward to then I hope, but no pressure.

 

And definitely, plus we'd be able to decorate Harran multicolored with them like on the end of my video more often lol.

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