James Gallagher

Be The Zombie Balancing Update - 12/1/2018

23 posts in this topic

Hey everyone,

Towards the end of last year we asked for your feedback on the general balance of Be the Zombie mode. We were hearing that you felt the Night Hunter was underpowered, but we wanted hear your specific points on what you'd like to see us change.

Thanks for all of your input - based on what you told us we have made some changes to BtZ. These changes are now live:

Drop Attack (AKA 'Death from Above')
Height required increased
Grab distance reduced

UV Flashlight 
Distance reduced (in 2 vs. 1 to 4 vs. 1 matches)
Cool down time increased
Initial cost increased (so that flicking the flashlight on and off repeatedly drains it more quickly)

Spits
Explosion radius increased
Explosion delay reduced
Effect duration for Control The Horde and Light Disable increased
Cool down times decreased (in 3 vs. 1 and 4 vs. 1 matches)

Survivor Sense
Night Hunter now appears on Survivors' mini-map(s) for less time

Misc.
Auto-balance reduced overall.

 

We hope these changes make Btz even more enjoyable for everyone and, of course, please let us know what you think.
James

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Issa não ajudou pra quem joga de humano, ficou horrível. A lanterna descarga mto rapido e demora pra voltar,  antes matava o predador com 3 hits e agora não mais, horda tá escalando prédio sim, pois eles aparecem do nada na sua cara e te mata, tem q ter punições para predadores q esperam chegar no final e abortam qdo vão perder, tem q ter  tempo pra fazer esmagador pois tem uns que fazem só isso pq sabem q raramente você escapa.

Não está equilibrado, predador tem muita vantagem ainda. Isso que fizeram piorou muito e tá fazendo nosso clã todo desistir 

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Tirem os suicidas que voam em você lá em cima dos prédios, deixem a lanterna com um tempo melhor, liberem 2 labaredas AI PODEMOS COMEÇAR A FALAR DE EQUILÍBRIO. essa mudança de vocês foi horrível 

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Are you kidding me? This is balancing? And the Crane? The human players will not have anything else with the exception of nerfs? And the bugs that help the night hunters the flying horde, the pounce of under the map, pounce in the water, the ground pound combo without stop, the trick of the fast camera and a lots of advantages of the night hunter, these things will not be fixed? The game remains unfair to humans players!

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Now i love dying light. I love techlands. But this patch is just unfair and unbalanced for the humans. I don't know why you guys thought this was balanced in any way shape or form. Humans were having a hard time enough as it was to play against really skilled hunters that actually knew what they were doing, and you guys went and made it even worse! This is insane. I find absolutely no enjoyment playing as the human anymore because of this patch. Go home! Your drunk!

Edited by Soulborn141
Forgot a sentance.

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Well, just spent the night in all sorts of matches, testing the new update. And let me just tl;dr right now:

That was the most fun I've had in Dying Light in a while.

And not just for Hunter. Sure, it was fun playing the Hunter and finally not being afraid entering 2v1s and 4v1s because of the absolute animation camp and medkit spam (which is still entirely possible), plus winning despite it. But playing Survivor? That is the hidden gem of this patch. I have not tested 4v1, but I did play a few 2 and 3v1s, mostly some 1v1s.

My 1v1s: It was incredibly fun facing even an average Apex Predator, let alone the Hunter who really knew who he was doing - a game I barely won, but it felt so good and it was so fun. I felt like I was at my peak again, despite not really playing Survivor recently because of how easy it was. Had to use everything in my disposal, think on my feet, take a few risks, prioritize nests to killing the Hunter - a.k.a fight for my life against a stronger, superior being, the way it should be. For the first time, the Hunter feels like a threat, but a threat you can definitely overcome with skill and a bit of luck. In terms of balance, the Hunter this time around is slightly more likely to win a 1v1, while before the update it was the opposite situation.  

2v1: The new most balanced mode. The nerf to 2-handers is surprisingly useful, but not too harsh, the spits are plentiful but definitely not too much. Both sides have the arsenal needed to take down the other side, so all that's left is skill vs skill. Nobody is favored here.

3v1: We faced a pretty good Apex Predator, while we were a fairly uncoordinated team (no offense, Cartier, much love) but individually skilled, so our overall level was around the Hunter's. Even despite that, we only had 3 spawns on the last nest to kill for the win, until we finally went down. If we had better teamwork we would've definitely won, so again - a very balanced game. I would favor a good team to beat a good Hunter in a close game here, so this in itself balances out with 1v1 mode.

Autobalance was not that apparent; spits were, for the first time, effective even if they don't stick; buffed crossbow damage (not mentioned in the notes) was a nice addition; the Hunter... feels smoother to control. I can't really explain it, did you change anything in terms of his locomotion? Anyway, I will write again when I experience a 4v1 from Survivor's side.

This update, at least for me, is the spark that made me love the game again.

As a final note to James Gallagher: don't listen to people like the person above me - a player who exclusively plays Survivor, has 3 times less playtime than what's needed to know the PvP inside and out, and basically requires the developers to change the game to compensate for his own shortcomings. It's by listening to players like him that the PvP of this game got in its worst state by far, which was before this new update.

Thank you for reading and listening to our feedback.

Edited by Vallon

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Hello

I just wanted to notice that now this game is unplayable for survivor. Its to easy for hunters. You have to make some balance. The hunters that I could easly beat so far, now are unreachable. I spent more than 1000h online in this game and now its frustrating.

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First of all, what you said at the end was completely unnecessary. Second, i have about 500 hours in the game, playing all 3 pve, survivor pvp and playing as the night hunter in pvp. you dont need 1500 hours to know the pvp side of this game inside and out. Yes, some games seemed too easy. DFAs were too easy to pull off, but nerfing the survivor sense and buffing the time for a spit to explode AND increase the distance of the spits explosion, was way too much to make the game unbalanced. Increasing the time for uv disable and horde spits are also a bit unfair in scenarios with more then 3 survivors. If your team isnt well coordinated, the hunter can generate another spit before your light comes back, spit another uv disable spit at you, disable your flare and reset the time for the uv disable, and if your team isnt well coordinated, your fucked because your flare is still on cooldown and your light is gone. Sure, this patch will encourage players in groups to be way more coordinated, but honestly, not every player is capable, or even willing to watch their teammates back. This patch is also a pain because now if playing with a group, your entire teams play style will need to be completely changed. As for nerfing the survivor sense, survivor sense is damn well useless now. You use it to get an idea of where the hunter is and that's about it, and theres really no point of having the minimap there during invasions anymore. Hunters will most likely now NEVER use the sense suppressor spits because of this.

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Yeah! Now this game so great!!! :D , players need use more skill and tacticals, not spam UV Light, Flares and DFA everywhere. :lol:

2 hours ago, Soulborn141 said:

If your team isnt well coordinated, the hunter can generate another spit before your light comes back, spit another uv disable spit at you, disable your flare and reset the time for the uv disable, and if your team isnt well coordinated, your fucked because your flare is still on cooldown and your light is gone

That by your team, not by Game. -_-
Don't worry, in first time of update patch, it's hard with more players (old), but it help they train skill better.

P/s: Sr for my English, it's bad.

Edited by herotina

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2 hours ago, Soulborn141 said:

...

What was unnecessary is for you to start insulting and calling me ''slam spammer'' every time you died in our match. This is what made me realize what kind of player you are: limited. Instead of changing your ''left click and dodge mashing'' playstyle that has been the basic since 2015, you prefer to make up excuses, seek fault in your opponent and dumb down the game enough so that you can do two inputs and win every time. This update did the opposite, and that is why you don't like it. Everything in your post reflects that, plus the fact that you think using one of the 3 melee moves a Hunter has twice in a row is spam.

By the way, it's called a Ground Pound. And trust me, you have not seen what GP spam is.

Edited by Vallon

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Well, not so recently, you've done the stupidity of putting just one flare for humans, now I find that. I am from Brazil, we Brazilians have a group with more than 10,000 players, only in one group, now everyone is very discouraged with the administrator. The game was good in the previous update, but now ... Put limits on this predator, please! Humans are limited in everything, even using a flare. What about predators? What are the limits of your abilities? Think about it. ;)

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2 hours ago, Vallon said:

What was unnecessary is for you to start insulting and calling me ''slam spammer'' every time you died in our match. This is what made me realize what kind of player you are: limited. Instead of changing your ''left click and dodge mashing'' playstyle that has been the basic since 2015, you prefer to make up excuses, seek fault in your opponent and dumb down the game enough so that you can do two inputs and win every time. This update did the opposite, and that is why you don't like it. Everything in your post reflects that, plus the fact that you think using one of the 3 melee moves a Hunter has twice in a row is spam.

By the way, it's called a Ground Pound. And trust me, you have not seen what GP spam is.

This man is Insane, trying to pick a fight in the patch notes comments. This is not the place for arguments and toxicity. If you got a problem with another player, take it to the game or the steam comments section, not a forum where the devs are looking for feedback about the game.

Edited by Soulborn141

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Guess I'll share how I feel about this update. (This is all in a 1v1 perspective)

Drop Attack: I loved this move very much as it was satisfying to pull off (especially on cheaters), but it does feel fair now. No longer I can just easily go on top of a van or short roof and pull this off. I actually have to do it in specific areas which is good.

UV Light: At first I thought this was going to be very horrible, but instead it feels right. The distance feels very right as I can't just UV a Hunter who is on top of a really high roof. The flicking is okay. The Cooldown is okay as well, but maybe just decrease it a little bit in a 1v1 setting.

Spits: I have mixed feelings for these. On one hand its great cause I can still dodge them if I move accordingly, but the Explosion radius and delay means that the UV Shield-UV Spit-Pounce combo is just as effective and can be pretty unfair. The duration of the effects are okay, but for UV Spit it can be pretty harsh at times. Plus I still feel the auto-balance at times making these new spits way too forgiving for new players who do nothing, but spam spits. Overall they are fine for the time being.

Survivor Sense: This is just annoying. I mean its fine and I think its a good thing, but it feels annoying to press the Sense button literally 24/7. At least making the Hunter appear for 2 or 3 seconds then poof.

Misc: Auto-Balanced still feels unfair. Plus Goons suck.

Overall these changes are great. It is a good step in the right direction for Hunter and I really hope more patches, bug fixes, updates etc. happen more in future.

Is there going to be any changes to Survivors by any chance James?

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The best balancing update that has ever hit the DL imo. 

I know i speak for all other good players that they think the same way.

NH is now much more playable and the game and balance itself are on place. The only thing dear dev's what's left is bug fixes.

 

Again thanks for the update MUCH appreciated and please dont pay attention to players who cry (complain).

NH should've and NEEDS to be hard to deal with not ping pong ball which you can kill with a thumb...

 

Thanks :)

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The only thing about this update is survivor sense while every balancing is welcomed the survivor sense update is kinda buggy because humans can now just spam sense and have constantly nh on the radar idk if that was intentional from the dev's or not but personally its like the update was never realeased that's related to survivor sense.

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Hey everyone, quick update for you: today we’ve returned Survivor Sense to how it was before this update. 

We really appreciate all of the feedback you’ve given us since the update and we’re reading all of it very closely. Balancing an asymmetrical game mode like BtZ is a challenge, but your input helps us immensely, so thank you. 

Right now we’re reviewing everything you’re telling us, and we’ll of course keep you informed of any more changes as a result.

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What an informative thread. Great to hear that people are having fun with the changes in new ways.

I say this without irony: people should post videos of these games where they enjoy playing as the challenged survivor against.... what? The kind of casual players folks make fun of? How is this not a surprise? :rolleyes: It appears that when many folks say they want balance, they mean they want an overpowered night hunter, which is the opposite of any conception of "challenge" that I am familiar with.

So why did we reign in GP spit combo (obviously overpowered) only to increase spit radius and blast to this extent? This seems to bias the game more towards spamming spits indiscriminately. I'm not sure why this is a better state of affairs than permitting the spit combo. At first glance, the play is even more transparent and predictable: hunter engages with spits and shield and will be rewarded disproportionately for less accuracy. And I say this as somebody who thinks the damage modifications to hunter seemed fair and measured.

Increasingly the balance discussions in general -in many games- seem a fine a way to keep people hooked and engaged with sub optimally tuned games while skimping on testing to milk community feedback. That's why I won't get into details anymore and state only the obvious: the amount of work, precision, and effort a hunter has to invest to win isn't equal to what is expected of survivors.

As to all the positive testimonials: I'm happy for everybody but would offer some perspective on all the love... for some of us do realize that we wouldn't be in a place where our hunters feel a new dawn emerging if the game were balanced. And if we're happy today the only thing this guarantees, is that come next patch...

 

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