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Hank J. Wimbleton

Should Instant Tackle be brought back?

69 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, Bub said:

I dont know. Dramatically slow down human health regen time?

 

It already heals pretty slow on Nightmare. Faster with legend XP but it's enough of a nerf to let you take down someone at low health. Even if they dodge back and attempt to heal they won't possibly get there if you keep attacking whereas a normal mode player can dodge back after a hit and be 100% again in an instant. Maybe make even Normal mode switch to "Hard" during PvP so they heal slower. The rest of the mechanics are pretty much the same. It would encourage people to watch their health more closely and even out PvP across the board. 

 

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20 hours ago, Visceral said:

....The game lost its touch and people would no longer play for the thrill of the competition but just to squeeze out a win by any means necessary.

Yeah, there was a distinct shift towards that lame attitude indeed. Not just with people using more cheats, and milking the game mode for wins without imagination, but in the online interaction as well: I used to see some high quality sophisticated trash talking frequently, with both sides having fun, instead of the increasingly knucklehead "Ah get wrecked noob, u suck, git good!" style exchanges, where folks try to outbid themselves in shallowness and negativity, I tend to experience a bit more these days. 

20 hours ago, Visceral said:

As far as the whole gp+spit thing, that was honestly initiated from when I started a new hunter. Just a little under 2 years ago I realized that not upgrading your ground pound was effectively stronger and made it so that spits could stick almost 99% of the time. That was obviously never intended by the devs because in a game where you can unlock all skills, when does one NOT want to unlock all skills available? It was just a slight oversight by the devs that I snagged and essentially it was nearly impossible to land a gp+spit with a fully upgraded skill tree.

Yes, that was an awesome find though, irrespective of whether it is deemed exploit by people or not: it was fun.

Also, it seems to be a valid tactic to break up multiple survivors (especially when facing groups of experienced players) that isn't just backed up by the stats, where we see survivors winning most PVP with 3 or more players, but also backed up by the core spirit of the game: If the hunter hunts, he has means of breaking up survivors other than waiting for them to misjudge ranges with surprise pounces, which is rather passive. And the risk-benefit ratio is decent because the hunter has to risk exposure to possibly multiple 2-handed weapon attacks with the gp in the first place, so getting that spit in is a logical reward for such risk in line with one of the core mantras we get fed in the hint screens and wikis: break up the group. Survivors that predict the move will have themselves a quick hunter platter, and those caught off guard will have to face complications. The current changes to this have more validity in 1v1 where this mechanism appears more op, which also seems to be relevant to turnout of the stats.

20 hours ago, Visceral said:

I'd like to return and see what the competition is like now, but I can't imagine its so bad that night hunters stand no chance. I don't believe that for a second. As with any game goes in DL PVP, the best chance at victory with me (And I still believe this to this day) is highly dependent on where nests spawn for the night hunter. This is the most crucial thing in BTZ to me and makes such a hellishly important difference in the game. You've got to find ways to adapt. That's how DL BTZ has always been.

Hope to see you around and hear your feedback if you do return, even though I think we play different time zones as I only have one or two memories of you obliterating me. The best strategy to defeat me, as hunter or survivor, is to joke around with the right kind of HD trash talk so much that my breathing is cut off and I have to wipe my eyes. :lol: Then folks can pounce, DFA, defeat me as much as they want, balanced or imbalanced because the laughs and people are where it's at for me, more than skills, level, rank, group etc. And then it's binary for me: either a game and its environments support laughing fits with bad jokes or they don't. And if they absolutely don't support that, I'm probably on my way to some beach, sunshine, pool, or planning my next trip to a place I haven't been or know with zero skills, zero work to think about, and where everybody is op to me. Location of nests, in or outside the game, is really crucial. Location, location, location! Timing! Good Food! :D

That's an underrated way to adapt to cheaters and negativity in games, the internet etc. that appears to work fine imho and perhaps a bit better than raging/reporting people or ranting. Are you losing games? Don't bother nagging, reporting folks or ranting: Take more vacation! And I say this as the absolute authority in vacationing and taking breaks: nobody can beat me at these things, and if you think you can, then pm me, pay for my vacations, and we shall see! In this sense, totally unbeaten. Perfect score up to this day and ready for challenges. B)  

Edited by Chickeninja
English is a pain and typos always creep in.

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On 16.08.2017 at 10:56 PM, Pete Donnelly said:

No one said this.   What I did say is you have to be intelligent about where you use it.  Again, the video I posted above shows many good examples if you watch the whole thing through...

I agree that players have to think before tackling. Some players were using it to overcome other imbalances, that is why they want it back so badly. In my opinion disabling iTackle is a step in right direction. Balance should come from conscious design decisions, not from weird exploits. By the way i am really curious what do you think Pete about people using explosive arrows very excessively in 3,4v1. They are shooting even under their feets when hunter gets close. They are sacrificing each other to get a kill on a hunter. I am perfectly fine with people trying new ways to kill hunter but.... they should think before using it. How is this fair when people are killing each other and shooting explosive arrows at me everytime when i get close and when they finally kill me they can revive each other. This was not the problem earlier, now i see more and more teams using this tactic which takes almost 0 skill. My solution to this problem is:

disable reviving for players killed by explosives. "Spam" will end and people will be thinking twice before sending you a cannonade of explosives under their feet everytime you try to claw them or do a ground pound. Explosive arrows are very powerful because they are exploding multiple times and they deal area damage !

I am really keen to hear what do you guys think about it. I would also like to add that this is problem only when people are using explosive arrows when hunter is fully comitted to attack. I was trying to bait players into explosives and wait for some friendly fire kill to put a toxic but it doesn't work when players are patient and are waiting for example for successful ground pound or successful tackle because it locks you in animation for a while. This short moment is enough to send you a ... let's say 2 arrows. Only 2 arrows you may think but each arrow does multiple explosions. In my opinion this is  GAME BREAKING exploit.

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Also I would like to mention another exploit.

If a survivor is in the toxic spit and shoots toxic bolt somewhere close to him even if he gets out of the spit he'll still drain hp like he's standing in the middle of the spit. It's frustrating and extremly annoying if you consider the fact that bolts on the crossbow switch randomly sometimes. +The dmg stays as long as player takes dmg from toxic bolt and his screen remain affected by the bolt.

Edited by LucasK

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3 hours ago, EMtriX said:

I agree that players have to think before tackling. Some players were using it to overcome other imbalances, that is why they want it back so badly. In my opinion disabling iTackle is a step in right direction. Balance should come from conscious design decisions, not from weird exploits.

I've seen another guy mentioning it on a completely different topic on the forum but let's try bringing it here. So if the iTackle is gone permanently how about adding a 4th mutation or even a 5th? The 4th to improve already useless sense  spit by that I mean survivors affected by the spit would've their hunter sounds volume reduced by 50% I mean not the howl but the running, breathing and jumping of the hunter is extremely loud which means that the spit is completely useless on top tier survivors since they can counter it by sound or obvious rookies by spaming flares everywhere and sticking real close. Now to the topic of 5th mutation - hunter could sacrifice 1 uv block to deflect survivors that are attempting a DFA with spikes on his back - I don't mean fatal damage but some sort of penalty for trying to spam like -25% health would be welcomed there. +Add some sort of option to dodge survivor dropkicks. Hunter can't chain tackles since it wasn't intended I get it while survivors can abuse the chupacabra out of any animation as much as they want for example dropkick chains what makes hunter life 100 times more annoying.

Designing new look for these 2 mutations and animations would take some budget and work but could also balance the PvP out and bring some veterans back.

Edited by LucasK

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20 hours ago, LucasK said:

I've seen another guy mentioning it on a completely different topic on the forum but let's try bringing it here. So if the iTackle is gone permanently how about adding a 4th mutation or even a 5th? The 4th to improve already useless sense  spit by that I mean survivors affected by the spit would've their hunter sounds volume reduced by 50% I mean not the howl but the running, breathing and jumping of the hunter is extremely loud which means that the spit is completely useless on top tier survivors since they can counter it by sound or obvious rookies by spaming flares everywhere and sticking real close. Now to the topic of 5th mutation - hunter could sacrifice 1 uv block to deflect survivors that are attempting a DFA with spikes on his back - I don't mean fatal damage but some sort of penalty for trying to spam like -25% health would be welcomed there. +Add some sort of option to dodge survivor dropkicks. Hunter can't chain tackles since it wasn't intended I get it while survivors can abuse the chupacabra out of any animation as much as they want for example dropkick chains what makes hunter life 100 times more annoying.

Designing new look for these 2 mutations and animations would take some budget and work but could also balance the PvP out and bring some veterans back.

I would not count on another mutation, it sounds surreal to me. But i have some idea. For example:

-sense spit disables dropkick for the duration of a spit

-Death from Above  from low height objects is disabled for the duration of a spit. ( I mean objects like cars). It would still work from high buildings.

Finally it would be useful. I was thinking about changing its name to disabling spit or constricting spit. It could do more things, but the idea behind this spit is to not disable crucial survivor moves like running or tackling but only certain moves, which in DL community's opinion are unfair in 2,3,4v1 scenarios.

This is just my proposition, i would like to see some feedback from community. I have very little knowledge about UNITY's engine tweaking capabilities so i don't know if it would be hard for devs to tweak things like that.

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Hahaha. Who are you to talk about disabling DKs when its the only way to make you f*ck off with your tendril claws.

You are just a cheap little hunter who goes on the same rotation with his attempts to kill. Uv spit + Uv heal  > Locking the survivor on the ground with horde and if those 2 fail you just tendril claw the survivor to death.

Go upload some more wins of yours where you consider that they are "worthy" of uploading.

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And it so happened to catch my eye when you won against Vallon yesterday and you did say gg to him. But when I won against you earlier the same day you just rushed off from the end game screen without a word. So what's up with that Mr.GoodIdeasForTheGame?

One last thing. What's with the time gaps between each video. Is that how long it takes you to win against a decent survivor(-s) ?

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25 minutes ago, Keenan said:

And it so happened to catch my eye when you won against Vallon yesterday and you did say gg to him. But when I won against you earlier the same day you just rushed off from the end game screen without a word. So what's up with that Mr.GoodIdeasForTheGame?

One last thing. What's with the time gaps between each video. Is that how long it takes you to win against a decent survivor(-s) ?

Funny thing about guys like you is that it doesn't matter for you when i beat you 4-5 times in a row in a serious match, You see only this one time when my friend called me to play CS:GO and i rushed to play another game  and i didn't really care, i was playing my 40-50 % yesterday, I gave you one free nest because i was AFK while i was talking through the phone. Go on, upload your win XD. Everyone will clearly notice that i am not attacking you for a significant amount of time to get a free nest. Later I was just rushing you without any tactic. I can give you a real 1v1 if you want :). Do You really think that yesterday you were good enough to beat me ? Haha, go on, live in your sweet lies if you want.  Good joke, man. Haven't you noticed that in previous matches i played differently and more sensibly ? In regard to your weak mean joke about winning against decent survivors my overall win ratio is sth like 80%. I lose 1v1 only with absolute top players like LucasK. I upload only a small fraction of my gameplay. Another funny thing is that you are rubbing my nose in dirt for being cheap but you can't upload even one decent match as a hunter to prove your statements. Most of your god hunters cant even take 4-5 lives from Vallon. But they are first to dislike me for being noob. You mentioned about my cheap routine, but look at yours lol. You are doing the same tedious thing over and over again.Dodge + slice. I encourage you to upload your gameplay and show your "skillz".

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You are so hilarious and hypocritical. Saying this " Funny thing about guys like you is that it doesn't matter for you when i beat you 4-5 times in a row in a serious match " .

But uploading a win against Vallon 5 months ago after losing countless times.

My routine changes with the type of hunter I face. Sadly I don't need to change anything when I fight against you because you are just an autistic little f*ck who is not capable of adapting to your enemy's playstyle. Even in your last video you were just missing your gp spits in the same way each time with only getting some strokes of luck.

No one forced you to upload your matches. It's for the person himself to decide if he wants to upload or not. And since you do those videos are there for mentioning.

You saying that in your previous matches you played "smarter" is a joke. You are not smart in any way, shape or form you are just capable of relying on glitches and exploits to win your matches and then you go around sucking Pete's d*ck saying that he did a good job by removing itackle. So I guess you wouldn't mind if he dealt with tendril claws, right? You spam that move like a little b*tch after everything else you do fails, which is extremely desperate. And I only took one nest after killing you and you being "afk" with your lame excuse of chatting to someone. That can wait just finish your match and get the f*ck out of the lobby.

Edited by Keenan

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Even how you popped some meems on the video where you won against Visceral is just sad. How about you upload all the countless matches you lost against him aswell ?

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On 8/15/2017 at 2:57 PM, Omni said:

 

I may not be the most experienced Dying Light player out there, I may be considered one of the worst Ultimates Survivors out there, who knows. But from what I know from experience, specifically today, I was playing against for Ultimate Survivors who were spamming heavy weapons; I litterally said to myself "Man i wish insta tackle was still around, it would be useful." But no, instead I can barely get out because every player hits me with a heavy, theres absolutely no way to get out of it. I think insta tackle should be brought back, because us hunters can't do any thing against an experienced team of 4 people. Now I'm not saying that for everyone, the experienced Hunters like, Vallon, LucasK, Omni, Deadlead2001, and so forth, but people like me who arent as skilled? We get pumbled because we can't do anything besides pray and hope they chupacabra up. But i agree with what LucasK said, I think there should be a cool down for how many times you can use it, but it depends on the team, if its a 1v1 the cool down shoukd be around 4 to 6 seconds, but it should change drastically when its a 1v4, maybe, 1 to 3 seconds? All I'm saying is I want it back. 

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2 hours ago, PhychoticBean said:

I may not be the most experienced Dying Light player out there, I may be considered one of the worst Ultimates Survivors out there, who knows. But from what I know from experience, specifically today, I was playing against for Ultimate Survivors who were spamming heavy weapons; I litterally said to myself "Man i wish insta tackle was still around, it would be useful." But no, instead I can barely get out because every player hits me with a heavy, theres absolutely no way to get out of it. I think insta tackle should be brought back, because us hunters can't do any thing against an experienced team of 4 people. Now I'm not saying that for everyone, the experienced Hunters like, Vallon, LucasK, Omni, Deadlead2001, and so forth, but people like me who arent as skilled? We get pumbled because we can't do anything besides pray and hope they chupacabra up. But i agree with what LucasK said, I think there should be a cool down for how many times you can use it, but it depends on the team, if its a 1v1 the cool down shoukd be around 4 to 6 seconds, but it should change drastically when its a 1v4, maybe, 1 to 3 seconds? All I'm saying is I want it back. 

Really they should adjust the whole slashing after an evaded tackle thing. It's pretty much a guaranteed hit 90% of the time, and with a two handed that's even worse. Seeing as it's so easy to evade, maybe it should be considered still within the animation and damage is reduced by whatever ridiculous amount they reduce it to when you're pouncing or grabbing a buggy. That should help.

Also for DFA spamming, I thought if a charge or something for it so it can't be spammed. Maybe even only allow it on a human who the hunter killed so it's like a revenge thing. If something like 2 others die before you can use your 'revenge' then you lose it. It won't be so easily spammed, but pretty satisfying as a DFA revenge kill. Giving the hunter the ability to avoid lock ins with a UV heal would also help. UV Heal = full stamina, full health, and cannot be locked in, so if you're swarming for drop kicks, it won't work, if you try to DFA, it won't work unless you get it right after it's done. It's almost OP, but it does come at a cost, especially if they already used a UV block. Not sure how such changes would play out, such things would obviously have to be tested. If it ends up giving the hunter too much of an edge then the complaints will go the other way.

Someone above mentioned exploding arrows. I'm not sure what the problem is. Maybe if they're insanely good with the mouse I guess, but on console I've seen people blow themselves up and it gives me a win. It rarely ever kills me. If you keep moving erratically then it's difficult to get an actual hit. 

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Instant Tackle should be brought back, along with gp spit, I understand that gp Spit took almost no skill but, it's annoying when the hunter misses a gp. It's not hard to hit a gp, so it's not hard to hit a gp spit, at least it was like that back in the day... Doesn't matter if you remove gp spit or not, hunters will avoid aiming spits as much as they can. I try to aim spits whenever I can, but sometimes I will throw in a gp spit or a tackle spit. Human, in 1v1 is really easy nowadays. Here's an example at 59:00, the human won with 2 lives left, I imagine the hunter would win before patch, also if you're going to add Instant Tackle and gp spit back, add old crossbow damage back, I know there was an almost instant combo of tackle + crossbow + slice, but with Instant Tackle, hunter would be able to counter it. It was rewarding to hit a crossbow shot, true that 3 crossbows were overpowered, there should be a limit to 2 crossbows, in my opinion. I wish I got into the game earlier, not in the beginning of 2017, I only got ''good'' after the patch, which makes me quite sad really... 
Also, try to fix latency for the next game.
I like how you take care of the exploits that made it actually more balanced, but not take care of infinie uv flashlights, infinite grappling hooks, infinite flares, and so on. There is this group http://steamcommunity.com/groups/BadKarmasCommunity which drops cheated/modded items to people, it should be terminated. And Bad Karma should get a ban on Be The Zombie mode really...
That's all I have to say.

 

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On 15.08.2017 at 9:06 PM, Pete Donnelly said:

iTackle takes 0 skill and was an exploit.

Nice fu©king logic, Pete. Because telebombers are 109348477575% skill and iTackle is 0% skill.

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As someone who finally made Biter rank after fighting nothing but top survivors for about 50 hours, I'd rather have Itackle than telebombers. Insta tackle does, in fact, take skill because you can't just do it anywhere at any time, can't use it on roofs or open areas. I will always give the option to revive if the kill is by a telebomber because it's cheap af. 

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As a level 60 apex... brought back. Lost a lot of the fun as hunter with that gone for me. Hunter is more evenly matched than ever, sure, but still against a Ultimate survivor like @Hank J. Wimbleton .... well I'm really lucky to get a few kills in there :-)

 

I'll also add that with preparation, it's super easy to counter the instatackle as a human anyway, so it's more of something that helps give an extra shot at surviving than turn the tide entirely.

Edited by SpecterUnseen

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9 hours ago, SpecterUnseen said:

I'll also add that with preparation, it's super easy to counter the instatackle as a human anyway, so it's more of something that helps give an extra shot at surviving than turn the tide entirely.

The "instatackle" has some unfair uses for example when the hunter hits a wall close up from the tackle initiation point the survivor can only dodge the itackle with a glitch. If things like this which make it broken were fixed the itackle would be a great addition to the hunter's arsenal.

Just that the devs don't see it that way.

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