Pete Donnelly

BTZ Tuning -07/26/2017 - Content drop #0 (PC)

25 posts in this topic

Hunter

  1. Removed "Insta-tackle" (Hunter turning after a failed tackle or pounce to start another tackle immediately)
  2. Reduced time in recovery state for UV Heal

Survivor

  1. Fix for "Autocrossbow" mod
  2. Separate flare usage costs and cooldowns for 1v1-4v1

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Thanks Pete, sneaking in a few BTZ updates there autocrossbow fix looks interesting ;) might do some hunting again.

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This is just astonishing at this point, honestly...

You did not remove iTackle, so might as well not lie about it. Going to go out on a limb here and guess that you came up with this fix only by watching what Survivors who don't have a clue how the ability works complain that ''it needs to be fixed because it's oh-so-unfair '', meanwhile, of course, pretending the numerous exploits for Survivors don't exist. The Tackle is still possible as a follow up after a successful normal Tackle, so what gives? Why didn't you just write out the ability itself from the code, instead of what seems to be your favorite approach of nerfing the hell out of the Hunter in the most stupid way imaginable?

Every missed Tackle now, which is as easy to evade as ever, pretty much leaves you for a guaranteed punish of at least 1/3rd of your health, most likely 80% because they either want to finish you off or want you to run away, or you just get DFA'd - you know, just standard Dying Light things. You'd argue it was like that before iTackle was even discovered, only it isn't - by turning prematurely, you could at the very least mount a successful counter attack, most commonly a spit + Tendril Tackle. Now? Survivors have all the time in the world to hit and react to your next move, it's literally child's play, while you stand there locked and waiting for that HP drain/death. Also, the standards for high-level play now are way higher than they were back when the game was in its early days, so the Hunter having zero ways to counteract something that any below average Survivor can do is laughable.

And UV heal? Feels like a Hypermode feature making into the normal game permanently. Makes no sense both visually and gameplay-wise. It's like you placed the few measly abilities the Hunter has in a bowl, randomly pulled one out (which coincidentally happened to be one of the least impactful ones), and were like: ''Yeah, this will do to shut them up if they complain''. 

Only you, Digital Scapes/Techland, can market making the Hunter stronger while in reality making it weaker than it has ever been post-1.11. It's actually kind of comical how the only way Hunters were kind of able to face and beat a good 4-man Survivor team was through exploits, which are now removed... only Survivors still have most of theirs untouched. The logic in this? Beats me.

I seriously don't get it anymore. It's like you're non-vocally trying to make it clear that the Hunter's role in this game begins and ends as a nuisance rather than a competitive PvP side, a nuisance that the Survivors are meant to quickly overcome so that they can go back to... uh, co-op story missions? It's either that or you're completely clueless how difficult it is to face even a pair of Survivors that know what they're doing, let alone an actual, full, coordinated team, and in turn - how much weaker the Hunter has been all this time.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So, this is where I ask in all earnest - Donnelly, or whoever else is willing to respond -  what is a Hunter supposed to do after an evaded Tackle anymore and, more importantly, is the Hunter even meant to be a competitive side or just a thing to maybe spend a few minutes on when you get slightly bored of the main game?

 

Edited by Vallon

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I'll throw out there that I've been a lurker for a while. I've logged more time on this game than any other, so thank you for such an awesome experience. 

As someone who's put the time in to max the hunter, I'm dismayed. I've accepted that the hunter is the underdog against ultimate survivors (Pete said "Glass missile" I think). I'll probably play less now with these changes. Yes, NH is "overpowered" to the inexperienced, but against the crowd that I find available now with hundreds to thousands of hours, it's an amazing feat if I can take them down to half their lives, much less make it a really close game. With some (talking to ya Hank Wilmbelton Jr :-) I'm lucky to get 2 kills. Granted, I'm not claiming to be the "best NH" out there, but I've been told I'm pretty good, so I'm just saying these type of nerfs against the hunter feel a bit disappointing.

I'll keep watching and hoping for continued progress. As someone who works in development, I understand there is a definitive balancing act that is very difficult to do, so regardless kudos for making such a freaking epic game, and I do look forward to the DLC!

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I have to agree with Vallon, playing hunter requires near perfection to ....... have chances for winning. Because horde AI often ignores humans completely and humans  instead of running away from hunter are uving him to zero energy and finishing him with dropkicks or slices which is just girlishly easy. (dropkick chains guys, you know them :) ). Random telebombers are helping sometimes. But usually horde AI is random to the point that humans are not caring about horde. They are targeted and instead of hurrying up to the roofs they are chasing you. Even if you tackle climbing human you are DFA'd. This is just horrible. Just look how hard it is to get some kills now. But after 2017\06 update when humans can make 10 times more mistakes than hunter and still win, they can finally feel that they are good at something lol.

 

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Nice patch, now Autocrossbow was dead :D
But why Techland don't fix Infinity Ammo-Gun and Modded Weapons?
Ex: Add check-code in datagame, if a save game have this elements, Game will auto remove that weapons. :ph34r:

uYWdybb.jpg

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Hey Everyone! 

Hunters tackle was never intended to be spammed until the human is caught in a state they cannot react.  It was meant to be used strategically.  Hunters need to think about when and how they use it.  It can be a very deadly tool if used in the right situations. It can even provide instant kills (into spikes, fall damage off a roof)

As for after a failed tackle (as with almost everything in this game) it is very situational. I would say you should be typically be thinking about 2 things though: 

  1. Get away (break LOS, regroup)  
  2. Groundpound 

And if you are in a position to allow a DFA...it's because you put yourself there. The Hunter needs to always be planning a couple steps ahead and you need to use the correct tools for each situation.  Tackle isn't always a viable option.  

Hunters do win.  Increasingly so. They used to have issues in 3v1 and 4v1 situations... but even these are essentially even with Survivors now (in equally matched games).  Again, my best advice to struggling Hunters is to choose only "Full Green Bar" games under the matching category.  These are Survivors that should have a similar skill level.  Anything outside of that means a greater mismatch (could be higher OR lower ratings than yourself)

 

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Alright so iTackle got fixed, now let's ask ourselfs what a average "Night Hunter" has up his sleeve?

The only thing that  was the least expected from the hunter was a tackle right after the evade also known as the iTackle, it could save you from certain death after evade or defend from the brainless DFA crows that just wait to flawlessly fall on you smash that LMB with the full strenght of their fingers and then say "EZ".

Survivor has countless exploits and ways to counter hunter at everything he attempts. Toxic spits if You corner a survivor it's very useful in 1 versus 1 scenario but even in a 2 versus 1 and so on survivors are 90% of the time able to get back up their fallen comrades before the hunter spawns. Then the sense spit who cares about this spit? It's the one the least used it can be countered so easily by survivors sticking close to each other and puting their FX volume at 100% because hunter is extremely loud when he jumps or tendrills.

+Mr. Pete how hunter is supposed to get away after failed tackle unless a survivor is clueless? Survivor can easily dropkick hunter after the groundpound or DFA him and how does it even make sense " And if you are in a position to allow a DFA...it's because you put yourself there "? The problem is that hunter can get DFA'd pretty much everywhere on the map unless he's inside the building or in a small tunnel oh wait DFA sometimes goes through walls..

Stop trying to fix stuff that was perfectly fine and complained on only by people that just want to spam 2 handers and DFA everywhere. How about fixing stuff in PvP that makes it completely unfair like random telebombers? Groundpound+spit was perfectly fine avoidable with ease by a simple jumping before the gp, but of course people are lazy and they have to complain at everything.

+There is also a strange bug. Infinite relaod was ment to be a thing ONLY for the infinite crossbow, but if the survivor switches real quick between 2 normal crossbows or a crossbow and a rifle it puts the second weapon into infinite reload. This thing is extremely frustrating and has to be fixed ASAP.

 

 

Edited by LucasK

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1 hour ago, LucasK said:

+There is also a strange bug. Infinite relaod was ment to be a thing ONLY for the infinite crossbow, but if the survivor switches real quick between 2 normal crossbows or a crossbow and a rifle it puts the second weapon into infinite reload. This thing is extremely frustrating and has to be fixed ASAP.

We have a fix...will be in the next patch. 

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7 hours ago, Pete Donnelly said:

We have a fix...will be in the next patch. 

Hi Pete, thanks for the latest patch, it pushed the game slightly in a right direction. Changes are good in my opinion.

-Quicker uv heal helps a bit.

Before releasing a new patch i would like to add some notes:

-People are complaining about double or triple claw glitch (shown in the video above), i am spamming it like crazy because other moves are just not working. What would you say to those people ? I would fix it by:

increasing the claw knockback to humans, it would remove the problem in open areas. ( It would also remove pole campers problem).

-Reviving humans should take more time ( maybe 3-5 seconds ? What do you think). I would like to see reaction of the community.

-Make hunter immune to dropkick for 1 second after being dropkicked or

decrease the damage after just  being dropkicked to not allow players for cheap dropkick chains which cannot be countered One dropkick means death and is very easy to do  or

let hunter regain control quicker after being dropkicked. (there are plenty of situations on countryside when one player dropkicks you and the other finishes you with 2 handed weapon before you get up.

-Fix fire + explosive damage combo to nests glitch, it ruins the experience.

That is all for now.

 

Edited by EMtriX

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Itackle was definitely not patched, however, I'll give a mention to Humble Appearance who in my opinion is one of the best night hunters (laugh it up) only because the guy will not use a single glitch to his advantage, no itackle or double claw, It is possible to win against good survivors without glitches, I rarely use them and manage to beat a lot of 1000 hour players as NH, given I die about 15 times on average.

But 1v1 is getting better. 1v1 should be entirely tactical for both sides, and fighting Humble Appearance, no itackle or double claw, no spamming flares and so forth, makes for a much more competitive and enjoyable 1v1.

BUT Itackle against 2 or more humans is necessary or each missed tackle is nearly fatal.

As for human, I can agree with the flare cool down, it's nice to be able to see again without 6 flares constantly lighting up my screen.

However the NH booster cool down is ridiculous, my cool down went from 1 match into the middle of the next match. Bit extreme.

 

Suggestions:

This is a long shot but maybe Night Hunter can revive a single nest spawn? 

Sense surpressor spit is useless, maybe give NH options before invading, a whole new set of spits would be interesting to see. 

A volatile or two spamming their toxic vomit at DFA campers, take my money.

As for humans, maybe speed booster or potions with less perks don't cool down as slowly as NH booster.

That's all I have.

ALSO GOING TO THROW THIS OUT THERE, why is Jade not an outfit?

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I dont know why ppl complain about dfa so much, if you throw horde spit where do u think most ppl r gonna run for? First of all why do u think old town is the most favorite map of all? Quite ez to avoid bombers, no running for miles for some tower while hunter is runing circles around u, and if u dont want to get dfa or simply dunno how to avoid it, go play countryside, flat as football field. Nh's first need to learn how to move as hunter is already fast enough if u put his abilities to good use. U will get dk'd only if u are slow and playing against exp survivors. Some here want to have zilion spits, insta tackle every time so u cant even get close to NH, knockback on every hunters move and not have to do anything, well I say to those get some skill and learn how to play as a pro and then come back and talk. There r a lot of exp hunters who use diferent combos in diferent situations and in proper time in a right place.Thats all. Ur not gonna throw toxic on flat street but in a corner ,when survivor is against the wall or something like that.

I saw same gameplay of you Cartier as NH and I must say the stuff u did was impresive, luck or no luck still looked pretty good to me and should be set as an example of what NH can do if used properly.

Taking away gp spit from hunter was the best thing to do as u can see it required no skill and everyone who is playing hunter now is completely lost, they dont know what to do..

Flare cd is ok for me

Boosters cd like cartier said, bit extreme but i can live with that

Xbow in 3vs1 or  4vs1 is now completely useless and absolee, I can live w that

Toxic is now thrown around like candys. One right tackle and toxic spit and ur done .OP

Not to mention NH's flying thru cars, buildings,walls so u have to use ur uv pointing at a wall cuz u dont see the Nh as he can pounce you or tackle you. 

One more thing, imo uv spitsmash should be disabled in 1vs1 matches.

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^ It'd be great if people who clearly either don't play Hunter at all or maybe have 10 hours on it don't speak like they actually know jack. It's because of players like you that the game is in its current, highly unbalanced state, and regrettably it's you Techland listens to. 

Edited by Vallon

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On 28.7.2017 at 9:11 AM, EMtriX said:

-Reviving humans should take more time ( maybe 3-5 seconds ? What do you think). I would like to see reaction of the community.

 

 

I think an issue with this would be that with such a long revive people will simply die while they are getting revived (even when hunter is dead), seeing as the time human are down is already pretty low in btz mode. Perhaps with a change like that (let's saya 3 seconds to revive) in addition to something like being in the animation of reviving will save someone from dying, even when the time runs out?

 

 

@Pete Donnelly, Instant Tackle still works.

Edited by Gattos

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2 hours ago, Gattos said:

I think an issue with this would be that with such a long revive people will simply die while they are getting revived (even when hunter is dead), seeing as the time human are down is already pretty low in btz mode. Perhaps with a change like that (let's saya 3 seconds to revive) in addition to something like being in the animation of reviving will save someone from dying, even when the time runs out?

 

 

@Pete Donnelly, Instant Tackle still works.

 

Reviving animation takes about 3 seconds good bloody one. Instant tackle works only with sucessful tackles it's useless because of tackle knockback. If you'll try to tackle 2nd person you won't be able to.

Also @Pete Donnelly, fixing all exploits that had many counters and were part of the PvP for over 2 years on hunters side just takes the skill gap in the game, it's pointless. If an average hunter knew couple of exploit it helped him out in the fight a bit it wasn't clearly giving him a free win. Now no one can feel distinguished from the crowd of the other hunter. I've played as hunter for almost 800 hours with total of 1534 in game and I never felt so similar to any other hunter in the game. It's clearly a bad direction for the game that will keep many veterans away because of the things that we kept doing for dozens of hours. Just fix annoying chupacabra like telebombers and fire + molotov. Make crossbow great again - crossbow rewarded great aim with amazing finishers back in the days when it used to do like 60dmg with impact bolt now most of the times player ignore hunter with 60hp because dealing 30 dmg points with impact bolt is clearly retarded and now awarding for players that take their time to aim.

 I agree with Vallon, people that are mainly survivors should not judge things based on their experience.

 

 

Edited by LucasK

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6 minutes ago, LucasK said:

Reviving animation takes about 3 seconds good bloody one.

 

I'm quite confident it's less than 3 seconds, and you get the point anyways; seeing as the debate was about increasing the time it takes to revive.

6 minutes ago, LucasK said:

 Instant tackle works only with sucessful tackles it's useless because of tackle knockback. If you'll try to tackle 2nd person you won't be able to.

 

Although I don't use instant tackle myself I've been insta tackled by another hunter on several occasions today, after dodging their tackle. 

If it matters to you: I personally liked the way hunter was, being able to use these tiny "exploits" that are now being fixed, and I'm all for buffing the hunter as long as the crossbow gets fixed and night hunter boosters go back to normal :)

I don't think it's fair that I can't share my experiences just because I don't have the same amount of time spent in BTZ  as you guys, but whatever floats your boat.

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Ah yes, the crossbow. This is just a small suggestion, but it would be great if some sort of mechanic could be implemented in where x-bow does more damage the more velocity the Hunter has, or at least have damage based on the Hunter's movement. This would both highly reward players going for skilled shots of Hunters speeding around and, at the same time, prove useless to cheap amateurs who just like to use it when the Hunter is suspended in an animation with a different player.

16 minutes ago, LucasK said:

Now no one can feel distinguished from the crowd of the other hunter.

Exactly this. 

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Not from my point of view, although this video was recorded today. Unless I'm mistaken this is proof that instant tackle still works... am I missing something?

 

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@Gattos is this on PC?  The fix is only available on PC at the moment.  In testing...it fixed the only way I was able to repro it, but if this is indeed on PC, it's possible there is another input method...

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1 hour ago, Pete Donnelly said:

@Gattos is this on PC?  The fix is only available on PC at the moment.  In testing...it fixed the only way I was able to repro it, but if this is indeed on PC, it's possible there is another input method...

It is PC

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33 minutes ago, boOya said:

Today's score, almost 100 spits in a 3vs1 match, any toughts, anyone??

I'm thinking this was a very long drawn out match.  Probably 3 ultimate survivors enjoying a healthy lead and toying with a lesser skilled Hunter instead of actually killing nests. ;)

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Well tbh the hunter was less skilled than usual hunters that we meet, 3 of us with combined over 3000 hours were pretty much strugling with this guy and he wasnt even an apex, spawning almost immediatly after the kill, it did take some time, cant just go for the nest.. Flare nerf was a big issue against apex hunters. 3 or 4 apex hunters we had and guess how many we won? None, not even close to wining... Just wanted to share my experience with this new update that i think no one new about...

Thank you for your quick answer.

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will any upcoming content drops include modifications to BtZ? If not it's pointless to rant here. For starters, one punch from NH is laughably not proportionate to one hit from a veteran survivor's (let alone 4 survivors') gold tier weapon which means a lot in terms of balancing this mode.

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