Pete Donnelly

Post Any Btz Bugs/exploits Here

638 posts in this topic

The problem with the slower regens is you can be stuck with no spits and a player who knows you don't have any.  With the NH poor melee skills you pretty much have to give up a nest as skilled players can navigate to and destroy a nest in about 30 seconds.  Regen one spit when playing against one human is 1:15 seconds and two humans is 50 seconds.  Sure, you can harry with only melee, but again that skilled player will not allow himself to be GPed or tackled.  He only has to click the UV light periodically to keep you from pouncing.  If you do pounce then that same skilled player is pretty much guaranteed to an interrupt.

 

While the spit regen might be where they want it, the NH toolbox is so small as he has nothing else.  The only way to get a spit back faster is to die.  You respawn in around 25 seconds and be back on scene in another 10 to 15.  But then again skilled players are able to destroy a nest in less time.

 

 

This gives me an idea. What if certain actions could reduce spit cooldown by a set percentage? Similar to some weapon perks in destiny (e.g. precision kills with certain weapons generate light orbs which give you supers faster). 

 

This way night hunters won't have an enormous amount of pressure to connect with a spit and leaves some options for when you're out of spits but need to stall for time.

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Also, can the horde bomber zombies be replaced by virals? As it is, the humans can flee the bombers just by climbing a building to safety - since the bombers can't climb, the effects of the horde spit is negated. I would suggest replacing the bomber horde with virals since virals can climb, and therefore, put the pressure on the fleeing humans. 
 
If this change cannot be implemented, then I would suggest that virals show up when humans use firearms during BTZ matches. 

 

I agree, this one needs to change. Even the level design screws over the bombers, absolutely no point using them on a map where most of the nests are on building tops.

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I agree, this one needs to change. Even the level design screws over the bombers, absolutely no point using them on a map where most of the nests are on building tops.

And do not forget, nests nearby (literally 2 meters) the safe zones.

Edited by Vektor_Noirsang

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This gives me an idea. What if certain actions could reduce spit cooldown by a set percentage? Similar to some weapon perks in destiny (e.g. precision kills with certain weapons generate light orbs which give you supers faster). 

 

This way night hunters won't have an enormous amount of pressure to connect with a spit and leaves some options for when you're out of spits but need to stall for time.

 

Some aspects of this issue could be solved if the players starts out with the number of shields and spits that they are maximum allotted. For example, you upgrade to allow yourself to be allotted two spits of each kind and two UV shields, then why do you only start the match with one of each kind if you are allotted two? You would think you would start matches with your maximum allotment right off the bat. This would help in the prevention of the elongated cooldown times for spits and shields since you will have two at your disposal.

Edited by A. Ryan

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The problem with the slower regens is you can be stuck with no spits and a player who knows you don't have any.  With the NH poor melee skills you pretty much have to give up a nest as skilled players can navigate to and destroy a nest in about 30 seconds.  Regen one spit when playing against one human is 1:15 seconds and two humans is 50 seconds.  Sure, you can harry with only melee, but again that skilled player will not allow himself to be GPed or tackled.  He only has to click the UV light periodically to keep you from pouncing.  If you do pounce then that same skilled player is pretty much guaranteed to an interrupt.

 

While the spit regen might be where they want it, the NH toolbox is so small as he has nothing else.  The only way to get a spit back faster is to die.  You respawn in around 25 seconds and be back on scene in another 10 to 15.  But then again skilled players are able to destroy a nest in less time.

 

Exactly! If you use up your spits and shields too soon, then guess what? You're basically dead meat and have to bide your time waiting around until your ONLY defense tools regen. Especially since you start out in matches with LESS than your maximum allotment of spits and shields. I was honestly shocked to have upgraded my spits and shields to carry two maximum allotments only to find out when the match started, I had 1.5 of each and STILL had to wait for it to regen to get full allotment. WTF! 

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I just remembered another glitch.  There is a nest site in the Slums directly to the west of the main tower.  The nests are around a two story building which is flanked by a long low building and three story building.  This is where I learned that if you standing in a certain area of the taller building's roof a human on the floor below you can melee you through his ceiling.  With the three swing kill so fast you'll die before you know what's happening.

 

I've also noticed survivors can hit you through doors if you're standing too close.  I was battling a pair once who were hold up in a room behind a iron grate door.  They could shoot arrows through the door and swing melee weapons through the door, but I couldn't send my spits through.  I could open the door, but the sequence was so long that if I just stood there I'd die.  I would have to open the door, jump back, and then proceed.  But that tactic never worked for the kill.  I go them other ways.  Still, the attacks through doors, and sometimes solid objects, is unfairly asymmetrical.

 

Edited to add: also it's frustrating when you're trying to snipe a spit only to have it get hung up on an antenna!

Edited by SomeOldDude

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Some aspects of this issue could be solved if the players starts out with the number of shields and spits that they are maximum allotted. For example, you upgrade to allow yourself to be allotted two spits of each kind and two UV shields, then why do you only start the match with one of each kind if you are allotted two? You would think you would start matches with your maximum allotment right off the bat. This would help in the prevention of the elongated cooldown times for spits and shields since you will have two at your disposal.

That's at the beginning of the match. Having both spits would only be good for one kill (1v1). The issue of having no spits can happen at any point in a match. What I'm proposing will help with those situations where you're pretty much forced to retreat due to having no other options.

Edited by jcks

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This gives me an idea. What if certain actions could reduce spit cooldown by a set percentage? Similar to some weapon perks in destiny (e.g. precision kills with certain weapons generate light orbs which give you supers faster). 

 

This way night hunters won't have an enormous amount of pressure to connect with a spit and leaves some options for when you're out of spits but need to stall for time.

 

 Like what?  The regen is slower if you're just lurking versus attempting melee attacks?  It would give NH incentive to attack close and then zip away for spit attacks.

 

...or the regen speed is dependent on how close the NH is to the nests?  Regen speed is faster the further away from the nest (though I don't know how that would fit in the lore of the story).  NH would have to gain distance to regen and then come back to attack the humans.  It would work in the humans favor when they are close the nest, but against them when they are far away.  It would however encourage humans to follow the mission of attacking the nests.

 

...or a spit is regenerated in full on each kill of a human following the lore of the NH feeding on humans.  This could also work as increasing the HP of the NH until he is killed.  Each human killed increases the HP by 50 until it reaches 300.  It is reset on a death to 150.  I know I would play a lot more conservatively if I was protecting my garnered HP and spit regen speeds.  But it would also help on not dying on a missed GP.

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Like what? The regen is slower if you're just lurking versus attempting melee attacks? It would give NH incentive to attack close and then zip away for spit attacks.

 

...or the regen speed is dependent on how close the NH is to the nests? Regen speed is faster the further away from the nest (though I don't know how that would fit in the lore of the story). NH would have to gain distance to regen and then come back to attack the humans. It would work in the humans favor when they are close the nest, but against them when they are far away. It would however encourage humans to follow the mission of attacking the nests.

 

...or a spit is regenerated in full on each kill of a human following the lore of the NH feeding on humans. This could also work as increasing the HP of the NH until he is killed. Each human killed increases the HP by 50 until it reaches 300. It is reset on a death to 150. I know I would play a lot more conservatively if I was protecting my garnered HP and spit regen speeds. But it would also help on not dying on a missed GP.

Basically.

 

I like the idea of spits recharging after getting a kill. In Destiny getting a precision kill with a throwing knife (hunter class) instantly refills the ability. This would need to be scaled with the amount of players but it's a good reward for more experienced who can capitalize on their spits correctly.

 

Not sure about getting health increases per kill. I'm not sure the devs would go for it since they're pretty set on the night hunter going down in 3 hits.

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That's at the beginning of the match. Having both spits would only be good for one kill (1v1). The issue of having no spits can happen at any point in a match. What I'm proposing will help with those situations where you're pretty much forced to retreat due to having no other options.

 

I understand. I think the end all be all is that SOMETHING needs to be done about the regens, period. Either give me my two shields and two spits at the beginning of the matches so that I don't have to wait for the full regens at the start, or speed up the regens like in your proposed idea. I'm all for increasing the speeds in which spits and shields regen so that the hunter always has some sort of defense at its disposal at all times. Unfortunately, per my earlier conversation with Pete, Techland is currently happy with the regen times and won't be tweaking them in the future - even though it is painfully obvious that some tweak/s needs to be implemented. 

Edited by A. Ryan

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The survivors are too agile. The spits are lost 95% of the time. The dodge is too "powerful".
 

In the end, we are left with humans who have the stamina of the NH: Unlimited. Without forgetting the grappling hook. What makes obsolete the advantage (supposedly) of the hunter (ie agility)
 
That's the trouble, humans are not humans (it's still a game but the survivors and Night Hunter are too similar in their attributes)

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Basically.

 

I like the idea of spits recharging after getting a kill. In Destiny getting a precision kill with a throwing knife (hunter class) instantly refills the ability. This would need to be scaled with the amount of players but it's a good reward for more experienced who can capitalize on their spits correctly.

 

Not sure about getting health increases per kill. I'm not sure the devs would go for it since they're pretty set on the night hunter going down in 3 hits.

 

But the Night Hunter going down in 3 Hits regardless of how many players are in the Game, that seems a little unfair to me.

 

I feel the Night Hunters health should scale with the amount of Humans He is up against.

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But the Night Hunter going down in 3 Hits regardless of how many players are in the Game, that seems a little unfair to me.

 

I feel the Night Hunters health should scale with the amount of Humans He is up against.

Agree, scaling need to be done. imagine your pounce got interrupted and while stuck in the animation 2 or more survivors swinging their weapons at u = insta-kill. 

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Not enough rewards for humans to keep playing same weapons over and over you get better weapons from the main game and they are not even rewards make the btz more rewarding for both parties

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I say again why are the humans able to attack me before I ground pound during while I ground and right after I ground pounded. Like honestly it's coming to point of bs now. Some people kick me right before I ground pound then hit with me with a two handed killing me in the animation of doing a ground pound.

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I say again why are the humans able to attack me before I ground pound during while I ground and right after I ground pounded. Like honestly it's coming to point of bs now. Some people kick me right before I ground pound then hit with me with a two handed killing me in the animation of doing a ground pound.

This ^

 

...and humans drop kicking from outside GP range.

Edited by SomeOldDude

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Agree, scaling need to be done. imagine your pounce got interrupted and while stuck in the animation 2 or more survivors swinging their weapons at u = insta-kill. 

 

Animations in general pose a big problem for this mode. Because it is impossible for the Night Hunter to have partners, there's no instance in which long animations (Pounce, Drop Kick, etc.) are in the Night Hunter's favor. Instead, Human players can use those animations to re-position or attack, which is especially detrimental when the Night Hunter is being attacked while Pouncing.

 

Death is prevented while in animations, but I've been in situations before where I've escaped after a Pounce with 0 health, only to be OHKO'd immediately after by a human waiting with a pistol.

 

It's a precarious issue, because those animations look really, really cool, and make the game unique. But the way they currently work, only affecting the Zombie and Human players involved, creates an unbalanced interaction in 1 Vs. 2+.

 

Just a thought! Pete, as always, thank you for keeping excellent communication with the community.

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Agree, scaling need to be done. imagine your pounce got interrupted and while stuck in the animation 2 or more survivors swinging their weapons at u = insta-kill. 

 

 

Animations in general pose a big problem for this mode. Because it is impossible for the Night Hunter to have partners, there's no instance in which long animations (Pounce, Drop Kick, etc.) are in the Night Hunter's favor. Instead, Human players can use those animations to re-position or attack, which is especially detrimental when the Night Hunter is being attacked while Pouncing.

 

Death is prevented while in animations, but I've been in situations before where I've escaped after a Pounce with 0 health, only to be OHKO'd immediately after by a human waiting with a pistol.

 

It's a precarious issue, because those animations look really, really cool, and make the game unique. But the way they currently work, only affecting the Zombie and Human players involved, creates an unbalanced interaction in 1 Vs. 2+.

 

Just a thought! Pete, as always, thank you for keeping excellent communication with the community.

 

This should be addressed in the upcoming patch via this change:

 

 

 

12. Outside damage mitigated while in PVP grab states (tackle, dropkick, pounce etc.)

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This should be addressed in the upcoming patch via this change:

 

That's good and i'm aware of it already. But it says 'while in PvP grab states'. So does missing a pounce and get thrown into the long animation before u land counts?    

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That's good and i'm aware of it already. But it says 'while in PvP grab states'. So does missing a pounce and get thrown into the long animation before u land counts?    

 

Most likely not as all that is happening in real time (no slow motion during the start up of the animation). It'd be nice if he can just leap off of survivors and continue to tendril away instead of flailing around in the air as if he just got shot out of a cannon.

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Survivors killing nests fast with a two handed weapon What happens is you swing the two handed weapons and hold the repair button and then let go and swing again and hold the repair over and over till the best is destroyed it makes it as fast as a machete and causes double the damage

 

Oh yea 1 night hunter against 2 or more humans is chuppacabra

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For the record, these look like amazing changes. I just had a question on one:

"16. Fixed Hunter Groundpound input not registering"

 

Is this related to the issue players have been experiencing where GP does not activate when holding down R2, unless it's held down very hard? I've been experiencing this myself, but it could also be that my controller is glitched out.

 

If not, this could be mitigated by making the Swipe hold-down and GP hold-down the same. I hadn't experienced this issue until the last patch came in and assumed it was me, but my inputs seem to work all right in other games.

 

Just another thought. Again, could just be my controller.

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Wasn't this a thread supposed to cover bugs and exploits, so that they can be ignored? I get quite conservative on such things. :D

 

Another potential bug I can report would be an issue involving Night Hunter potion: the other day, after probably drinking more potion than is good for Kyle, I noticed that after a death, Kyle's running speed was twice the running speed than with drinking the potion normally (which is already a bit more than 'normal'). And I had a game that was ten times as fun, even though I didn't win.

 

What I do see is a lot of people posting Santa wish lists, which I don't object to, although it does seem that in the effort to deliver a premium title, the powers that be decided to not capitalize on the community's diverse opinions. It looks increasingly like the route of offering people customized multiplayer experience (without hassle of building own maps, syncing files etc.), where player control and convenience (large part of fun imho) are the higher priorities, is losing ground to the idea of one-size-fits-all "we know what's best approach" as evidenced by the transparent implications of statements that roughly imply "what would users know about how the UV should be tweaked or not? We are happy with it as is, so anybody not happy is...", when there is reasonable evidence, not least to be found in people's posts of this forum, that that approach leaves a lot of people frustrated, inadequately informed and/or puzzled. I thought community was about probing player satisfaction instead of trumpeting developer satisfaction, but I am naive on lots of things.  :rolleyes:

 

Some nerf/buff is always going to have a hunter stumble into the forum, frustrated by hacking survivors, or some survivor complaining that hunters are OP. The only viable solution to this imho is to let people play the games they want to play with minimum hassle in connecting to each other. If I like my group and/or a certain hunter, a quick way to customize or otherwise create variation in game play for the next match would be fun: Kyle with limited teleport ability, two hunters, tweaks to speed/agility, one-hit-kill-only claws-tackles-kicks-session, possibility of player handicaps to experiment different flavors of the game mode, varying nest location and or multiplayer objective... most of these things, and the many other ideas that the forum has put forward in recent months, require perhaps less obsession on balancing and more focus on letting people have the fun they articulate with the game they purchase. This without having to resort to cheat engine, trainers, code etc. which frustrated players on both sides are increasingly motivated to do.

 

Sometimes its easy to miss the logical cost of each fix: the game history becomes more complex while the quick unfettered playability that drew people to the game in the first place increasingly loses itself in some quest for perfection, that will 1) naturally make it harder for beginners to get into things (=> steeper/larger learning curve of having to remember history of tweaks, their effect etc.), and that will 2) never hold for everybody, because people are different and perfection is quite a relative thing that's tough to grasp. While I am certainly keeping my fingers crossed for these changes to better the game significantly, it might be appropriate to note that we've been told the same thing a number of times before, while for example shield exploits just sat there for months.

 

In any case, nice to see more people posting instead of the skeleton crew of the last few months. Keep it up and have yourselves a happy new year, with happy hunting and/or surviving! :)

Edited by Chickeninja

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I just remembered another glitch.  There is a nest site in the Slums directly to the west of the main tower.  The nests are around a two story building which is flanked by a long low building and three story building.  This is where I learned that if you standing in a certain area of the taller building's roof a human on the floor below you can melee you through his ceiling.  With the three swing kill so fast you'll die before you know what's happening.

 

I couldn't duplicate this today.  Maybe something else happened, but I seem to remember looking right at him when he did it.  I couldn't hit the hunter today, tho.

For the record, these look like amazing changes. I just had a question on one:

 

"16. Fixed Hunter Groundpound input not registering"

 

Is this related to the issue players have been experiencing where GP does not activate when holding down R2, unless it's held down very hard? I've been experiencing this myself, but it could also be that my controller is glitched out.

 

If not, this could be mitigated by making the Swipe hold-down and GP hold-down the same. I hadn't experienced this issue until the last patch came in and assumed it was me, but my inputs seem to work all right in other games.

 

Just another thought. Again, could just be my controller.

 

I'm on a PC and it happens to me and not just the GP not registering.  Happens sometimes trying to spit.  I felt it happened today also trying to spit smash.

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